What machine did he run the mpc outputs thru to get that compression on the final beat? The drums always , especially the kicks, had a distinct knock in the mix. Even moka only shit, on certain albums of his, has a certain sound on the mix on the final sound of the beat. Ive used mpcs throughout my 'career' (until the past few years since i been on the roland sp joints and recording a lot of live one track at a time 8track shit)... Regardless tho, i could always get my drums kind of knocking on the mpcs, but i never ran the outs from the mpc into any processor to get that real good punchy final mix.

Im not using pro tools and still not on the software shit.

If anybody can drop some jewels itd be appreciated. Ive taken most of the year off from recording to get my headspace clear but im going to crank back up very soon and want to see if i can get this certain sound out of mu shit that im looking for. Still raw, but looking for that certain knock and snap on the back end.

If I may be so bold. There is no 1 way to make beats "knock". What I would suggest is picking any DAW to export the tracks to and then learn the tools that are inherent to mixing anything whether it is kick drums, snares, HHs, Vox, Bass guitars, string sections etc...

Compression and EQ techniques are what you are searching for and I would suggest learning the fundamentals and then you won't lack the knowledge and you'll know fundamentally what Dilla, Quincy Jones, Chris Lord Algae, etc do to get their sound.

It's all a craft, learn it.

DAT for rough mixes most likely. But I'm guessing the outs from the MPC and everything else went into the 24 channel mixer. I've seen pictures on line (google dilla studio) but can't call the brand. Looks either like a tascam or soundtrack but i could be way off on that.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

>DAT for rough mixes most likely. But I'm guessing the outs
>from the MPC and everything else went into the 24 channel
>mixer. I've seen pictures on line (google dilla studio) but
>can't call the brand. Looks either like a tascam or
>soundtrack but i could be way off on that.

I don't think this speaks to the OP's actual question. Building off of what you mentioned, that 24 channel Mixer more than likely have on-board EQ(without a doubt) and probably Compression at the Channel Strip level. Just bouncing tracks from format to format doesn't in and of itself change the character of the sound, not for the better usually, unless that mixing board was purchased specifically because it mangles it in a nice way.

EQ and Compression are the ONLY ways to make individual sounds sound the way the OP wishes they would.

Did Dilla even actually mix his own stuff or did he track it and then send it to be mixed?

>I don't think this speaks to the OP's actual question.
>Building off of what you mentioned, that 24 channel Mixer more
>than likely have on-board EQ(without a doubt) and probably
>Compression at the Channel Strip level. Just bouncing tracks
>from format to format doesn't in and of itself change the
>character of the sound, not for the better usually, unless
>that mixing board was purchased specifically because it
>mangles it in a nice way.

Nah, disagree. Just going through a mixer pre tracking, meaning the individual sounds were still being tracked to the ADAT after being eq'd (I doubt there was compression per channel on what he had), makes a significant difference than just straight tracking. Every analog mixer, even shitty ones are going to add color. And tracking your eq means that's the place that it's starting from. If he takes that adat to a bigger studio it already has a sound on it which the engineer is going to help bring out, but just in the tracking he's added his touches to it.

>EQ and Compression are the ONLY ways to make individual sounds
>sound the way the OP wishes they would.

which is accomplishable with the mixer (sans compression which isn't necessary, but also was onboard the 3000). You can get the sound you want out of just that. Then you have that sound mixed.

>Did Dilla even actually mix his own stuff or did he track it
>and then send it to be mixed?

Based on what I'm describing it doesn't matter but probably the latter.

Disclaimer - everything I'm saying is speculation based on the gear I saw him with.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

>
>Nah, disagree. Just going through a mixer pre tracking,
>meaning the individual sounds were still being tracked to the
>ADAT after being eq'd (I doubt there was compression per
>channel on what he had), makes a significant difference than
>just straight tracking. Every analog mixer, even shitty ones
>are going to add color. And tracking your eq means that's the
>place that it's starting from. If he takes that adat to a
>bigger studio it already has a sound on it which the engineer
>is going to help bring out, but just in the tracking he's
>added his touches to it.
>

No disagreement there. So to be straight here (because I too am intrigued with Dilla's workflow) he programmed on the MPC, tracked that out to the 24 channel mixer to EQ it there and then print to ADAT? If so that speaks to what I was saying about having the 24 channel mixer in the signal flow SPECIFICALLY because it mangles sound in a pleasing way. Because if it isn't for the special sauce of the channel strip, what would be the point of pushing it through the mixer just to then port it to ADAT to THEN be mixed?

So the EQ on the mixer was there for that purpose. I guess we're both Kinda right?



>>EQ and Compression are the ONLY ways to make individual
>sounds
>>sound the way the OP wishes they would.
>
>which is accomplishable with the mixer (sans compression which
>isn't necessary, but also was onboard the 3000). You can get
>the sound you want out of just that. Then you have that sound
>mixed.
>

If and only if that mixer was used for that purpose. I've had almost all of the MPC versions ever made and the compression was always the weak point IMHO. I never used it and sought out compressors that were more tasty so to speak. Again if Dilla was only using onboard MPC compression he was even a bigger genius than I thought.



>>Did Dilla even actually mix his own stuff or did he track it
>>and then send it to be mixed?
>
>Based on what I'm describing it doesn't matter but probably
>the latter.
>
>Disclaimer - everything I'm saying is speculation based on the
>gear I saw him with.
>


Actually I would argue it REALLY matters because if the mix was good coming out of the DAW/Board there would be no need to send it to be mixed. Maybe mastering but not mixing. I just checked Dilla's disco and he gets a mixer credit on only 2 of the projects he was involved in.
http://www.allmusic.com/artist/jay-dee-mn0000809513/credits

Im trying to get to. Mark 45 King also has real real good final mix / EQ

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

For YEARS there have been these legions of fanboys (not calling the OP that, so, no disrespect intended) that think that Dilla and other greats were just going straight out from the MPC to the final, retail disc.

They totally negate the mixing process, mixing engineers, mastering, mastering engineers, which are what really help to get that particular sound that so many of them are looking.

They hear these rumors about recording to tape and go out and buy an 8 track Tascam machine and think they're gonna get the same sound as a commercial release.

It's just not gonna happen.

What I'll say to the OP is, if you've been producing for some time and are still holding on to this fallacy of the MPC 3k imparting some kind of magic that can trump the mixing equipment in a major studio, you've been mislead for quite sometime. Like ChanEpic said, time to learn some compression, EQ and all the other little tricks that engineers use or at least start employing a mixing engineer, at the least.

We could sit here and pontificate about Dilla's gear ALL DAY, but you'll waste a lot of money and valuable time chasing that stuff and still not end up where you want to be.

Trust me, I was misguided by these SAME guys when I first started producing. Taumbout, "Madlib only uses the SP-303, so, if you can't make your stuff sound like heat rocks using that and ONLY that, you need to find another hobby."

Number one rule on the internet: Take everything as opinion and with MANY grains of salt.

Lastly, if you're not on software tip, at least for tracking out your stuff, you're just putting yourself far behind whatever competition you have. It's great to use hardware for the nostalgia and all that, but, don't needlessly handicap yourself.

>Lastly, if you're not on software tip, at least for tracking
>out your stuff, you're just putting yourself far behind
>whatever competition you have. It's great to use hardware for
>the nostalgia and all that, but, don't needlessly handicap
>yourself.
>

anybody reading this should pay this no mind
saying anyone not using software in favor of hardware is handicapping themselves is idiotic and basically useless information
you can get amazing results using either alone, or both together, so don't project your experience on to someone else just because you work better in one platform or another

>anybody reading this should pay this no mind
>saying anyone not using software in favor of hardware is
>handicapping themselves is idiotic and basically useless
>information
>you can get amazing results using either alone, or both
>together, so don't project your experience on to someone else
>just because you work better in one platform or another

When did you become the foremost authority on ANYTHING? I simply was giving advice to ONE MAN who stated his aversion to software usage. I NEVER said this was applicable to EVERYONE in the world, like you are doing, trying to discredit my OPINION.

I'm not an idiot and my OPINION is NOT useless. I NEVER said you couldn't get decent results with hardware. And, I SPECIFICALLY was referencing his usage of something as antiquated as, which I"m guessing is what he's using, an 8 Track Tascam machine.

I NEVER said that that ALL hardware is useless or outdated. I myself have PLENTY of outboard stuff and still use an MPC 4000 and 3000. And, OF COURSE a good mixing board or summing bus can do wonders, BUT, I SPECIFICALLY meant that software is great for tracking because it allows one to bring up a project in a couple of seconds, is great for going back and making changes AND is also more convenient for passing those tracks onto engineers or artists that want to utilize them.

Don't take my words and construe into what you WANT them to mean before asking a COT DAMN QUESTION for clarity.

Don't try to son me... I ain't one of these rooks.

>I NEVER said that that ALL hardware is useless or outdated. I
>myself have PLENTY of outboard stuff and still use an MPC 4000
>and 3000. And, OF COURSE a good mixing board or summing bus
>can do wonders, BUT, I SPECIFICALLY meant that software is
>great for tracking because it allows one to bring up a project
>in a couple of seconds, is great for going back and making
>changes AND is also more convenient for passing those tracks
>onto engineers or artists that want to utilize them.
>
>Don't take my words and construe into what you WANT them to
>mean before asking a COT DAMN QUESTION for clarity.
>
>Don't try to son me... I ain't one of these rooks.

You still on the 3000 and 4000? I still own mine but I have moved on to Maschine.

I'm not trying to influence anyone but I think the OP could benefit from using something like Maschine where your tracks are set up in a basic channel strip fashion and EQ/Compression/Verb/Delay are inserts and easily tweaked.

>You still on the 3000 and 4000? I still own mine but I have
>moved on to Maschine.
>
>I'm not trying to influence anyone but I think the OP could
>benefit from using something like Maschine where your tracks
>are set up in a basic channel strip fashion and
>EQ/Compression/Verb/Delay are inserts and easily tweaked.

But I use them for sequencing. I guess I just got accustomed to it and have never been able to stick with anything else.

Now, don't get me wrong, I CAN use everything else. I've put in work using FL Studio, Ableton, Logic, Reaper and DP, but there's nothing like the hands on feel of an MPC.

Of course Maschine can give you the same feeling, but I still can't justify the purchase. ALTHOUGH, the new Studio model looks right up my alley. If I was to ever give up my MPC, though, I'd have to be honest and say I'd probably just do all my sequencing in FL Studio. They SPECIFICALLY cater to beatmakers and EDM'ers.

>When did you become the foremost authority on ANYTHING? I
>simply was giving advice to ONE MAN who stated his aversion to
>software usage. I NEVER said this was applicable to EVERYONE
>in the world, like you are doing, trying to discredit my
>OPINION.
>

you can't have an opinion on something that isn't true, and saying that if you don't use software you're at a disadvantage is not true
as far as when I became an authority on anything, that happened the day I stepped fresh out some pussy and took a piss on the doc


>I'm not an idiot and my OPINION is NOT useless. I NEVER said
>you couldn't get decent results with hardware. And, I
>SPECIFICALLY was referencing his usage of something as
>antiquated as, which I"m guessing is what he's using, an 8
>Track Tascam machine.
>

it's a useless opinion because it's not based on fact; it's based on your own preferences and experience
if you really wanted to help you could've said that you have better experiences with software than you did with a mostly hardware setup instead of making foolish blanket statements


>I NEVER said that that ALL hardware is useless or outdated. I
>myself have PLENTY of outboard stuff and still use an MPC 4000
>and 3000. And, OF COURSE a good mixing board or summing bus
>can do wonders, BUT, I SPECIFICALLY meant that software is
>great for tracking because it allows one to bring up a project
>in a couple of seconds, is great for going back and making
>changes AND is also more convenient for passing those tracks
>onto engineers or artists that want to utilize them.
>

that may be what you meant, but that isn't what you said
in fact this makes more sense than your previous statement, and the two are not even in the same ballpark in regards to allusion



>Don't take my words and construe into what you WANT them to
>mean before asking a COT DAMN QUESTION for clarity.
>

you need to speak clearly and not make such covering statements when you're trying to be specific


>Don't try to son me... I ain't one of these rooks.

take the bass out your voice, nigga-I ain't the one

>
>>When did you become the foremost authority on ANYTHING? I
>>simply was giving advice to ONE MAN who stated his aversion
>to
>>software usage. I NEVER said this was applicable to
>EVERYONE
>>in the world, like you are doing, trying to discredit my
>>OPINION.
>>
>
>you can't have an opinion on something that isn't true, and
>saying that if you don't use software you're at a disadvantage
>is not true
>as far as when I became an authority on anything, that
>happened the day I stepped fresh out some pussy and took a
>piss on the doc
>
So, now you're ALSO the foremost authority on facts? As far as I can tell, most things spewed from the mouths of most human beings are OPINION, ESPECIALLY when it comes to things such as the antiquated war of software vs. hardware, which wasn't even what I was trying to foster in my original statement.

And, all that funny talk is good and dandy, but, I'm here for the real talk and not the bombastic, delusions of grandeur that your internet personality seems to dabble in so frequently.


>it's a useless opinion because it's not based on fact; it's
>based on your own preferences and experience
>if you really wanted to help you could've said that you have
>better experiences with software than you did with a mostly
>hardware setup instead of making foolish blanket statements

Okay, since you're so bent on FACTS, PLEASE establish what these facts are that you're so much in defense of, who's run empirical tests to prove them as inalienable?

Also, once again, I NEVER made a blanket statement and NEVER said that my words were the end all be all. ANYONE without a desire to be irritable would have read that and KNOWN they were an opinion.


>
>that may be what you meant, but that isn't what you said
>in fact this makes more sense than your previous statement,
>and the two are not even in the same ballpark in regards to
>allusion

Dude, once again, I never meant for like TWO SENTENCES to be an entire treatise on my stance on software/hardware usage or co-habitation of the two in my work process. You're the one who went all jumping to conclusions and extrapolating the location of Jimmy Hoffa's remains and the location of Malaysian Flight 370 from my words. Not me.

>
>you need to speak clearly and not make such covering
>statements when you're trying to be specific

I wasn't trying to be specific. I was merely trying to state my opinion on ONE SMALL facet of the OP's original post. And, I don't need to do A COT DAMN THING other than voice my opinion and provide assistance and advice (BOTH of which I was trying to do), when possible. My purpose on these boards has never been to shock post, rabble rouse or make e-friends. Merely to congregate with like minded music enthusiasts to my pleasure.

>>Don't try to son me... I ain't one of these rooks.
>
>take the bass out your voice, nigga-I ain't the one

YOU ARE the one who decided to go on a crusade against me for some stuff that almost anyone else would have read, agreed or disagreed with, and moved on. Instead, you out here trying to make me sound like I'm some kind of uneducated voice on the topic and should be ignored by others. And it seems like you think that's you're job around these parts, but don't get me caught up in performance of the duties of your job description.

I ain't gon' back down because you use a few cuss words peppered with some racial slurs, trying to be funny. That don't impress me NOR does it make me want to tuck tail and retreat.

Just like you, I AIN'T the one.

AND, knowing you're the type of cat that NEEDS to have the final word, I'll be awaiting your reply but I won't be RE-PLY-ING...

but his beat cd's still have some crispy ass punchy ass kicks and snares.


a studio engineer is a no brainer. but him and many many others have been recording bedroom productions and spicing up the mix with a little more than just a MPC and a Technic 1200 and a dj mixer. there's one more piece that helps get that snap.

>but his beat cd's still have some crispy ass punchy ass kicks
>and snares.
>
>
>a studio engineer is a no brainer. but him and many many
>others have been recording bedroom productions and spicing up
>the mix with a little more than just a MPC and a Technic 1200
>and a dj mixer. there's one more piece that helps get that
>snap.
>
>

I wouldn't steer you wrong but you're making it more complex than necessary. Snap, Punch, Warm, 3d, all of those terms speak to the manipulation of compression and EQ. If your MPC has on board EQ/Comp get REAL familiar with those tools and use them. Secondly, learn about gain staging and how that affects overall mix punch, clarity, translation during the tracking/programming phase. I think someone alluded to that in the thread when he asked how are you getting the sounds INTO the MPC. As I said below: even if you bring in samples and don't do any further processing, the SAMPLES THEMSELVES have been EQed and Compressed.
Learn the fundamentals of engineering, have a VERY good idea of what you want to hear(How do you know that the kick sound is THE kick sound or is it a random audition of sounds until you go: "Eureka"),

If you get really good with EQ and Compression and you solidify what pleases your ear, you can make pretty much any set of instruments sound the way you need them to.

>
>I wouldn't steer you wrong but you're making it more complex
>than necessary.

He's searching for the easy button when there really isn't one.

>Snap, Punch, Warm, 3d, all of those terms
>speak to the manipulation of compression and EQ. If your MPC
>has on board EQ/Comp get REAL familiar with those tools and
>use them. Secondly, learn about gain staging and how that
>affects overall mix punch, clarity, translation during the
>tracking/programming phase. I think someone alluded to that in
>the thread when he asked how are you getting the sounds INTO
>the MPC. As I said below: even if you bring in samples and
>don't do any further processing, the SAMPLES THEMSELVES have
>been EQed and Compressed.
>Learn the fundamentals of engineering, have a VERY good idea
>of what you want to hear(How do you know that the kick sound
>is THE kick sound or is it a random audition of sounds until
>you go: "Eureka"),
>
>If you get really good with EQ and Compression and you
>solidify what pleases your ear, you can make pretty much any
>set of instruments sound the way you need them to.

Which, in summation, means that, rather than having to pay an engineer, you now have become your OWN engineer.

>but his beat cd's still have some crispy ass punchy ass kicks
>and snares.
>
>
>a studio engineer is a no brainer. but him and many many
>others have been recording bedroom productions and spicing up
>the mix with a little more than just a MPC and a Technic 1200
>and a dj mixer. there's one more piece that helps get that
>snap.

If you think it's just one more piece, then, you've got ALL the information that you need and I wasted my time trying to help you out. That's my fault.

You seem to be searching for a "specific" answer and anything that doesn't fit that mold is useless, so, best of luck with that search.

Also, do yourself a favor and look up that video of Dilla's studio with Frank n Dank. When he started seeing that money, he spent it on a REALLY nice ass studio with all the bells and whistles, which I'm sure he utilized during the creation of some of those beat cd's you mention.

Like I always say, don't vouch for what another man used or uses unless you were there during the ENTIRE creation process.

It seems like you think my words are to hurt you or misguide you, but, I'm honestly trying to give you advice that it took me quite sometime to learn and I wish could have gotten that wasted time back.

Don't go bandwagoning with Garhart (or even myself, at that) thinking that's gonna get you anywhere. Choose what works for you.

>Im trying to get to. Mark 45 King also has real real good
>final mix / EQ

Let's cover the real basics then.

EQ - the goal is to create a full frequency spectrum where similar instruments get their own space. E.G. The track has both a Kick Drum and Bass Synth/Guitar. Both of those instruments live in roughly the same space in the frequency spectrum So most mixers would start by cutting some on one. So I would cut 60 - 80hz from the Bass so the Kick would have all of that.(just arbitrary #s)

Guitars and Keys - a lot of the same EQ space so I cut the Guitars @ 1.5K and on the Keys I'll boost 1.5 by half a DB and cut something like 700 and boost the equivalent on the Guitars...

Also, High Pass filter items not needing bass(almost every other instrument but the kick and bass synth/guitar) and low pass filter that kick and bass.
Hi and Lo passes clear a lot of MUD out of mixes. That mud can kill your mix and mute that KNOCK from the kick you want so much.

Then compression.... That's a whole 'nother other.

45King made his beats on an old 80's apple computer and then he would track it out on his 24track mixing board then record it to ADAT, real simple.

What MPC do you have? How are you compressing and equing in the machine? What is your sample source? How loud are you recording in?

my favorite being the 2500.
then the 1000.


those 2 joints actually have effects built in the machine (compression and EQ) that you can apply to the whole beat, and it really makes a huge difference on the punch/knock/and slap. huge difference.

i'm not rocking a MPC in my set up currently tho.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/rap-hip-hop-engineering-production/126934-jay-dees-licks-bassline-technique-not-his-mixdown-keyboard-used-whatever.html

some guy that worked with dilla dropping the knowledge

is the Presonus ACP88

>is the Presonus ACP88

So hood. That thread is great though.
The Cliff's Notes:

1. Dilla used outboard compression as a tool.
2. He had 1176's, Focusrite Red and didn't use any of it. WHOA!
3. Early on he would premix in the MPC and take it to the studio to dump (tape and/or Protools?) until he built his own basement studio to mix.

no equipment
bob power
presonus compressor
mixing board
detroit dank…

gonna get your shit sounding like that…

people sleep on how much the arrangement and timing affects the sounds…

aint know way you replicating that

my main point is…no matter what dilla used. he would have worked it until it sounded right to him.

just do you. trust

>people sleep on how much the arrangement and timing affects
>the sounds…
>
>aint know way you replicating that
>

what does the second sentence even mean in relation to the first?

the arrangement/sequencing affects the sounds just like eq/compression is

music is all context

part of the reason dillas beats crack was his use of space

i'm saying no one is gonna replicate dillas arranging/context choices

how many people sample dilla drums (looking at you kanye)...

do they ever HIT like they do in dillas?? NO. the SOUNDS are the exact same as his. sampled from his records, but the context in which they used changed and so they sound different.

more about trying to identify a piece of gear to sprinkle into the mix to help get the kick and snare sounding a little more punchy and slappin in the mix.

if i run my outputs of my beat machine thru the correct compression unit, and then adjust the individual levels of each track on the MPC, for example, it will absolutely have the fuckin joint more knocking and slappin. i was trying to find some help identifying what pieces of gear that some producers may have been using from about 1996 to about 2002... what mid-grade compression machine was commonly in the studios? obviously the MPC60's and MPC3000's and sp1200's were common pieces back then... what about the compression joints?

Listen to the 2002 Batches... No engineer was involved in those since they weren't official releases--they were for rappers to pick and choose from. The drums punch hard and everything is perfectly mixed. He just had an ear for it as well as an endless patience for finding the best drums.

Here's a couple of examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0mR2LNTeHg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tPsjq4i4tE

Directly from the tape. He wasn't always that good, though. Check this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfLaDaOZC_0

Tape hiss aside, he clearly didn't have the mixing skills back in 1996 that he had around 2002. He developed that aspect of his game like any great does for any weakness they have.

Lots of beats on there that not only sounded radio-ready, they sounded mixed to the point where you could play them on a club system straight off the CD.

Lots of styles spread across those tracks, with (IMO) a huge nod to The Neptunes (all those sparse beats with shakers and quick synth stabs) and Timbaland (all those weird Middle Eastern samples he was using).

The best part about those beats though was how much was sampled from old records. I'm talking sounds that anyone with a MiniMoog could bang out, but he sourced them from 1970s prog/electronic LPs. The man was a serious, serious record collector.

But you don't need outboard stuff to get it, you can get that sound straight from the MPC if your sounds are right and you understand what your equipment does

this isn't tru tho. these producers were using like one extra thing in the arsenal to get that compression. they were taking the beat from the MPC and running thru one extra piece to get that extra Punch on them Kicks and snap on them snares. i'm trying to identify what that piece is

inside the box it can and has been done before

>this isn't tru tho. these producers were using like one
>extra thing in the arsenal to get that compression.
>they were taking the beat from the MPC and running thru one
>extra piece to get that extra Punch on them Kicks and snap on
>them snares. i'm trying to identify what that piece is

Why are you so convinced it was just ONE piece?

i know u got some game to chop up

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=17&topic_id=10810

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

MPC3000 + Presonus ACP88 .

Or
mpc 3000 + presonus m80 + presonus acp88

...the best advice I can give is a bunch of old ones, such as never use just one kick and also other sounds can be sped up or slowed down to use with your kicks and snares...it's all about layering, and I was doing this before I had a mpc and when I did get one I was doing this before I added effects board on it.

It's tons of drum kits that's already made for sample producers to use with out chopping them but I still love to chop up kicks, snares, & high-hats, etc from an actual record then layering synth drums with them.

J-Dilla been making beats since the early 90's, he's been to studios and probably gotten a million tips from other producers and engineers before the late 90's, so just don't think he just magically how to make his drums hit.

Also if you listen to the two beat cds he had on Waajeed's label Bling47, Waajeed recorded those beats straight from his MPC, and those beats sounded hard without all the equipment people are talking about.

>Also if you listen to the two beat cds he had on Waajeed's
>label Bling47, Waajeed recorded those beats straight from his
>MPC, and those beats sounded hard without all the equipment
>people are talking about.
>
>
>


But see I have a problem with this line of reasoning.

1. I don't think anyone is saying you NEED "all the equipment" but you do need SPECIFIC EQUIPMENT like a compressor and/or EQ of some sort.

2. Even if people are dumping tracks "Straight from the MPC" there is some sort of dynamic processing happening. Whether the sample itself has been compressed/limited/mastered or if you do it while programming the tracks.

The KEY is learning what it is you're going after and how to achieve it with the tools in your arsenal.

The whole "Tracked from the MPC" is a gross oversimplification and as such misses the whole point of becoming better at your craft.

It's been stated repeatedly that Dilla got a pre-mix working in the MPC and would then use other processing to finalize the mix. That isn't that much of a different workflow than any working producer/engineer. The difference lies in the EAR of the producer/engineer. You have to have an idea of what you WANT to hear and then go about learning how to acieve that sound and that is a craft not some inherent God given trait.

Heck most bedroom producers I know don't even understand what compression is let alone when to use it to it's best effect but EVERY professional(being paid to do this) producer/engineer does and they use those tools as a part of the process. Is it possible to compress or EQ in a sequencer that has that stuff? Sure, but EQ and Compression aren't some esoteric unattainable Holy Grail of recording where only those rocking 1176's and Neves can achieve it. And the counter is NOBODY programs a beat and leaves it at that. (not anyone moving units on a Dilla level that is).

>But see I have a problem with this line of reasoning.
>
>1. I don't think anyone is saying you NEED "all the equipment"
>but you do need SPECIFIC EQUIPMENT like a compressor and/or EQ
>of some sort.
>
>2. Even if people are dumping tracks "Straight from the MPC"
>there is some sort of dynamic processing happening. Whether
>the sample itself has been compressed/limited/mastered or if
>you do it while programming the tracks.

Don't go speaking the truth. They may censor you for it.

>The KEY is learning what it is you're going after and how to
>achieve it with the tools in your arsenal.
>
>The whole "Tracked from the MPC" is a gross oversimplification
>and as such misses the whole point of becoming better at your
>craft.

Been preaching this for YEARS, but, cats still want to hold onto that "mystique" that most of their favorite producers carry, so they'd rather ignore the obvious and go with that.

Another thing is that, FOLKS CAN SAY ANYTHING! That don't make it truth. Shit, I would too. HELL YEAH I'd tell folks that I made a beat just from tape splicing if I knew it was gonna make me look like a genius AND discourage them from trying to enter the game. Now, that's NOT to say that it's impossible for those beats to have been recorded straight from the MPC, but, only a few people can ACTUALLY know the truth.

So, it's better to find what tools works for "you" and don't worry about trying to emulate someone else's process.

But, many times, cats don't REALLY want the truth. They want to hear what they want to hear.

>It's been stated repeatedly that Dilla got a pre-mix working
>in the MPC and would then use other processing to finalize the
>mix. That isn't that much of a different workflow than any
>working producer/engineer. The difference lies in the EAR of
>the producer/engineer. You have to have an idea of what you
>WANT to hear and then go about learning how to acieve that
>sound and that is a craft not some inherent God given trait.

Amen.

>Heck most bedroom producers I know don't even understand what
>compression is let alone when to use it to it's best effect
>but EVERY professional(being paid to do this)
>producer/engineer does and they use those tools as a part of
>the process. Is it possible to compress or EQ in a sequencer
>that has that stuff? Sure, but EQ and Compression aren't some
>esoteric unattainable Holy Grail of recording where only those
>rocking 1176's and Neves can achieve it. And the counter is
>NOBODY programs a beat and leaves it at that. (not anyone
>moving units on a Dilla level that is).

Or at least INTENDING to move units...

One of the most underestimated things when sculpting drums is a nice envelope. Drop the sustain down with a short decay and use the release for the tail. That gives kicks and snares that nice initial punch.

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

is the bassline programming. like in the gear slutz thread i posted it mentioned that he used the 16-level function to program almost all his basslines, but i wonder if he just sampled a single bass note and used 'note off' to determine the length of note.

IMO the best thing about those ummah era basslines was the variety of note lengths: from stutter to semibreves.

like others have said in this post. And im using it with my MPC3000 too. I've had it for a long minute now and its ok but there's no magic in it to get the Dilla sound.

Dilla just had an amazing ear.





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Instagram : ascensionmusic

If you sample timid drums to begin with, it'll take a lot of shaping to get it knocking. Look for drum samples that already knock Iike dilla.

And looking at how you're getting your sounds into the sampler. I remember reading an interview with Pete Rock and young guru about how Pete took great care in getting the right sound from the LP thru the mixer and into his 2000lx (overall quality of the sample to begin with, some eq, right levels, etc). Like, the shit was already knocking out the sampler already!

With kicks specifically when I was on my mpc I'd put the main kick on another pad filtered til it's all bass and play it simultaneously with the original. That may help.

Edit: just re-saw the compression question. U talkin about like on Donuts? That's definitely a compressor...prolly with a fast attack, slow release with a relatively high ratio. Or the mowtown tape? Not much compression, sounds like him just cranking the up volume on the sampler to the point of digital distortion.

The compression on Donuts is insane. Makes the album spooky and claustrophobic IMO ... which is just sheer genius because most engineers would turn their nose up at such a narrow dynamic range. Would sound like sh!t on most records but somehow works perfectly.

And +1 on paying attention to your source material. EQ first then lift the sample. If you do it right, will bump even if you record it to 4trk Tascam cassette.