the corny whiteboy part is why he's so beloved & popular, cause folks relate to him

the rapping real good part is what got him his due respect from heads

all this is why he's a perfect pop star for our times

Bubba Sparxxxx was corny.

Asher Roth.

but Em...

never.

Not just because of Detroit or drug abuse....but Em has always had an edge.

blue collar corny maybe, but corny nonetheless

been Jordan-ing in his lines from "my name is..." to "any man" to "3am"........

that's comedy with an EDGE.

believe me, I can tell the diff 'tween that and......Bubba/Asher.

doesn't mean he's not corny w/ it

>Bubba Sparxxxx was corny.
>
>Asher Roth.
>
>but Em...
>
>never.
>
>Not just because of Detroit or drug abuse....but Em has always
>had an edge.

It's not like he's some type of deep conscious rapper. He doesn't say anything that might change your perspective on any particular topic. For the most part he's a mix of technical skill & off color humor/shock value.
Em is edgier than Mac Miller & Asher Roth but that's about it.

Eminem is one of the best rappers ever. Unfortunately, he very rarely makes good music. These are, to my mind, unarguable facts. They can exist side-by-side with no logical disconnect. So why is this post gonna go POAST?

i think some get mad cause they desperately don't want him (& them as fans by extension) to be "corny"

some get mad cause they know he's corny & it angers them that he could still son them on the mic

Jay-Z, Nas, etc all grew up listening to the soul, funk and jazz records that most hip hop producers cherish and sample from.

Their records reflect that experience.


I don't know for a fact whether or not Em did have that background as well, but if you look at his beat selection post-Dre, its been dogshit and to me reflects his (lack of) experience with the black musical tradition.



The beats he produces (poor man Dre beats) also hint that this an artist without an appropriate foundation.



There's people who understand hip hop in the context of past genres that influenced it , and there's those who do not. Its becoming increasingly clear that Eminem is the latter.

though Em USED to make songs that had some kind of groove to them, no matter how rare they were. Since 2009 he hasn't had that same knack.

>though Em USED to make songs that had some kind of groove to
>them, no matter how rare they were. Since 2009 he hasn't had
>that same knack.


would those happen to be from the days when he was still under the direction and guidance of Dre?

Up until about '03 Em had good song structure and could make a song sound groovy even if it still had the Eminem edge to it.

To be fair tho, he still is technically under the guidance and direction of Dre. Dre produced most of Relapse (I did come around to liking that album), and Exec Produced Recovery and MMLP2. So maybe Dre's ear is slipping in his old age, too. What is he, 60? (kidding but not really)

that's a good piggyback & development of the topic

and true!

like the *rapping* was always the thing he "got" (and amazingly well of course) but the beat thing was NEVER his strong point, making or selecting

Hard to not agree with this post. Dude skills legendary but corny beats and concepts happen often.

imo the shitty beats aren't em's first or even second biggest problem but you reminded me of that line from squeegee man shooting.

>I don't know for a fact whether or not Em did have that
>background as well, but if you look at his beat selection
>post-Dre, its been dogshit and to me reflects his (lack of)
>experience with the black musical tradition.

does this really matter? there are very few rapppers today who seem to have listened to anything other than rap for their entire lives. rappers people LOVE, and they couldnt tell you the first thing about the "black musical tradition". why not just say, "i dont like his beats"? are you really on the lookout for jazz scales in basslines, and would you know them if they were there?

>The beats he produces (poor man Dre beats) also hint that
>this an artist without an appropriate foundation.

again, what is "appropriate"?

>There's people who understand hip hop in the context of past
>genres that influenced it , and there's those who do not. Its
>becoming increasingly clear that Eminem is the latter.

what are some examples of what you mean?

and producers music sounds so soul-less and has no feel to it. But surprisingly...a lot of young rappers/producers still did grow up on old school and R&B.

have those genres been appropriated to a certain extent? Of course.

but the idea that young black kids aren't still hearing those records is ridiculous to me.


But surprisingly...a lot of young rappers/producers still
>did grow up on old school and R&B.


Thank you.


Those kids might not find the records on their own, we all can't be hipster crate diggers, but they have parents (and older members within their community) still playing these records in the background at cookouts and friday night spades.


Of course, a kid isn't cognizant of the music at the time, but what do you think they gravitate towards when they grow older and start selecting beats??? This is the "appropriate" foundation I'm talking about in my o.g. reply. If you have that foundation, its going to manifest itself.


like I said in my original reply, there are those grounded in this shit and those who aren't


If you're coming from outside the community, you have to do a little research to make that connection, but for those within - its implicitly understood.

the tone of this reply


easy to see why you always rush to the defense of that other outlier


I'm sorry that the concept of the Black Musical Tradition, as it relates to hip hop , pisses you off so much.


I couldn't imagine enjoying hip hop and not understanding the shit in context.. .. that's just me though



are you really on the
>lookout for jazz scales in basslines, and would you know them
>if they were there?


idk how you could have read my o.g post and not understood that I AM someone who could recognize jazz scales in basslines.


I'm not a tourist in hip hop like maybe some others. My grandaddy was a jazz musician, pops played bass guitar. I'm capable of understanding the genre in the appropriate context in which it was created - fucking crazy, I know.

In other words, I can tell when some bullshit (without any foundation) is being passed off to me and what isn't. Apparently, some (in this post and elsewhere) cannot



"we take hip hop seriously. This isn't a game. This isn't a hobby. Most of you don't get it." - DJ PREMIER






>again, what is "appropriate"?


idk how to answer this. Where do i begin explaining what foundation is to a cultural appropriator?




>
>what are some examples of what you mean?


I would link songs, but I don't care enough about you to do that.


It's saturday lol.... LIke I said in the o.g. post, either you understand this shit in the appropriate context - or you don't

which one are you?

and say Em's catalogue seems to reflect not being influenced by music in general, not just black music.

Take a guy like POS who grew up on hardcore/punk music and even though he raps now, his music clearly reflects that

I'd bet some of the emo/indie white guy set like Buck 65, Sage Francis, etc. are fans of folk-poet types like Bob Dylan

There are definitely rappers white, black, and otherwise influenced by great music that isn't black music

I think Eminem is a fan and student of rapping only; I would be surprised to learn he's ever been invested in any non-rap genre period.

>and say Em's catalogue seems to reflect not being influenced
>by music in general, not just black music.


An artist of any genre needs to have some kind of foundation, some grounding, in past genres. This is obviously important in hip hop because of sampling


I can actually tell what kind of music an MC was listening to based on the kind of beats they choose.


>
>I'd bet some of the emo/indie white guy set like Buck 65, Sage
>Francis, etc. are fans of folk-poet types like Bob Dylan



^^^ love this




>There are definitely rappers white, black, and otherwise
>influenced by great music that isn't black music



I'm sure there are. But they exist on the periphery of hip hop. I can't think of a single canonized rapper not influenced in some way by the black music tradition.




>
>I think Eminem is a fan and student of rapping only; I would
>be surprised to learn he's ever been invested in any non-rap
>genre period.



Yup same here.... in that way, he reminds me of a LOT of fans/rappers in 2013

>
>>There are definitely rappers white, black, and otherwise
>>influenced by great music that isn't black music
>
>
>
>I'm sure there are. But they exist on the periphery of hip
>hop. I can't think of a single canonized rapper not
>influenced in some way by the black music tradition.

i can't imagine being a good hip hop artist who has never been into any soul/funk/R&B at least

yet this makes the most sense

-------------------------
“Floyd Mayweather should be taking fights up to 157 or 160 pounds...His frame can hold the weight..it's not even a lot of weight....Go to the gym and lift weights man..lol.”-- Warren Coolidge

lately, I feel like I've been on some bullshit in the Lesson


I need to get back to posting like this again


been going through some personal things that I don't care to share here and its probably reflected in my posting



I'm sorry yall, I often drift - Andre Benjamin

and pissed off exactly one poster

lol

Wally's homie. Em was the right balance at the right time. his angry/humor rants are reactionary, however he is pretty mild mannered when not provoked.

nope. not at all.

he's one of the greats. folks used to be try to "only see that he's white ignoring skill, because he stood out like a green hat with an orange bill."

when i lived in the south and we'd go through our cd wallets for long road trips (i played basketball and football) we'd always trade and listen to each other's music. To see who had what and folks were listening to.

i was cali boy, and they all had southern music, and besides kast (and dungeon fam) i wasn't really listenin to too much of any of it. and they'd always clown me for listenin to him. and i'd clown them claimin southern music was not lyrical.

"drug ballad" makes you laugh, and think about the drug scene. "who knew" talks about real issues, he really went in on influence and the critics. "if i had" if you're strugglin to make it, or ever dealt with any of that stuff, you can totally relate. "rock bottom" ain't nothin corny about that song. "cum on everybody" is the biggest single that never was, however sometimes they sneak it on the radio.
"the real slim shady" has a crazy true identity to it. like the beat and that time period and all of that were really captured, him and dre were in their creative pocket.

he put on a clinic in lyricism on "murder murder." and showed you how home field advantage pays off when you rap over your own beat, going against "blueprint" jay in his prime, and making it his song. "renegades"

out of all of the veterans in the game and people who have been doing it as long as he has, why is he one of the few "pure" rappers that ventured out and started making his own beats? yeah he may not have listened to all of the same records as a nas or jay z, but to deny his ability or that he's one of the greatest diminishes the validity/strength of your opinion.

he can't be that good at rappin on accident. and it's out of a genuine respect and appreciation of the culture. he's rap's larry bird, and if ashers, macs, yelas, are produced because they patterned themselves after him, the white rapper label kinda falls to the wayside, and its just about being good.

drake, common, talib, etc.

he's making shitloads of money and he already has the respect of your favorite rappers. i guess it depends on who your favorites are, but most likely.

Especially when "this person is corny" is coming from dudes that work from a cubicle or a at a chain store for a living, drive a broke down whip, have no sense of style, and have never fucked a girl that others would think is more than a 6.5 (and possibly sound like dwebs in real life)

You may not like they're social or political affiliations/ideas, their music, or some of their life choices, but none of those dudes are corny

I do think Common has become corny, and Kweli could be at times even though I love them both. Drake certainly is corny..but I feel you though fam

dude is SUPER corny

are there any OKS posters that actually add something of value in here?


seems like its all links, one word shitty replies and OE calling us mad lol

this feels like pandering on his part but thats why i asked

edit: i also replied to your post with in depth questions if you're so desperate for real interaction

yeah im on a mission to impress OKP Black folks, ya got me smh

you realize this post is not an attack on Em, right? he's sn amazing MC...also corny...we used to think those things were mutually exclusive...now we grew up & know better

lol just kidding

i think ur problem is taking "corny" to be an insult

when i think of why i would call dude corny tho....the beats he raps on, the subjects he addresses, the features he gets (rihanna corny as hell)

also...8 mile (the movie), his penchant for wearing du rags & head to toe Jordan outfits, his weird voices...

Does corny mean "being themselves".

Actually describing someone as corny implies they are out of the norm.

It's the reason you're applying the label and making a post.

But in reality....corny is just being yourself I guess.

Seems to me like EM's being himself. There is no set standard on how to be, so if you think he's "corny", then it must mean "being yourself".

Unless your expectation is for every hip hop artist to follow a standard model persona.

And if he doesn't fit your standard model persona....you apply a label i.e. "corny".

-------------------------
“Floyd Mayweather should be taking fights up to 157 or 160 pounds...His frame can hold the weight..it's not even a lot of weight....Go to the gym and lift weights man..lol.”-- Warren Coolidge

exactly...it's definitively corny....I hate to go there with this, cause an MC is an MC, but if we want to talk white MC's, I rather hear these guys over em all day...

Evidence-makes way better LP's than em...

EL-P-and it's not even close...so creative, while being definitively Hip Hop...

Edan-crazy creative....

Aesop Rock-makes great LP's, original style...

He seems corny because he's never really conformed to the idea of what a rapper should be. There's always been a certain expectation of rappers to act hard, wear the right clothes, the right accessories, drive the right car. This was especially true in the early 2000's when Eminem was at his peak popularity. When everybody was talking about how long their chain was and how big their rims were, Eminem was talking about popping pills and making dick and fart jokes. He's never really made any attempt to be "cool", he's always seemed like a slightly trashy, average white dude. And that's why so many average white dudes flocked to him, they could relate.

so many other good things in the world.
whats next? another post about jay z or nas?

and allot of them are probably still in grade school

...exactly...

honest, outlandish lyrics...tell you all his insecurities & odd things about himself, and it worked...dont really think he ever tried to fit in...other wise he coulda easily been another "wigger" white rapper who no one cared about, but he never got labeled that because he was honest with you about who he was in his songs

dude is a supremely talented rapper who has a great persona (esp. for the time he came out).. but he also had a *visionary* behind him... i don't think that part has never been his strength,.. with the last two albums, we're seeing a more unbridled talent and in *my* opinion, it doesn't really work for em.. and that's not even an insult to the dude, there are VERY few *great* rappers who happen to be *great* visionaries too (Andre, Mos Def, Q-Tip, etc.?).. the reverse is true w/ someone like a kanye - focus on being a visionary, not a *great* MC and he does his best work when he's got help on the execution part..

from what i can tell (and obviously i don't *know* and would never claim to), Infinite was what em envisioned for himself.. everything from SSLP - Relapse had dre's influence.. and Recovery and MMLP2 are em's own interpretations of what made him successful.. and he's just plain better when Dre is directing.. but then i lost faith in that being possible again after hearing "i need a dr.".. and Beats by Dre success lol

his latter era career has kinda made me embarassed of how hard i rode for him during the benzino beef