i always had it pegged as sell out or commercialized stuff...


WRONG WRONG WRONG

and WRONG

i mean, yeah, it's a departure from the jazz of snobs but based on the 3 LPs i have, Sweetnighter, Mysterious Traveller & Tale Spinnin', these dudes (whoever they were at the time surrounding Zawinul & Shorter) were DOOOPE

they covered a lot of bases too forreal

i like Vitous a lot in general even tho it seems he & the 2 above had some, uh, issues

what u think tho?

I think it's a classic example of too many cooks in the kitchen. Everything was overthought, overwrought and overplayed.

They've got a 'choon or two, but overall, no thanks.

'choons:
"soul in isolation." http://bit.ly/159yQaK
"jacques snicket." http://bit.ly/14iU9Xs
"pushed by wind." http://bit.ly/164IZGB
"I've always been interested in people, but I've never liked them."
—Henry James
austintayeshus.blogspot.com

>These 'choons? no thanks.
>
>'choons:
>"soul in isolation." http://bit.ly/159yQaK
>"jacques snicket." http://bit.ly/14iU9Xs
>"pushed by wind." http://bit.ly/164IZGB
>"I've always been interested in people, but I've never liked
>them."
>—Henry James
>austintayeshus.blogspot.com

s.blak
You'd BETTER be British too w/ all the assfucking going on in that reply.
*rolls eyes*

no need to take it there imo

If you don't like it you don't like it...but fuck outta here with the fake Giles Peterson bullschitt ALL DAY.

FOH,baby

s.blak
I've heard better "Hold" music.
*spits*

. . .so I must be destroyed as a human being.

#thelessen
#newmodel

'choons:
"four days to go." http://bit.ly/15YTmuQ
"jacques snicket." http://bit.ly/14iU9Xs
"pushed by wind." http://bit.ly/164IZGB
"I've always been interested in people, but I've never liked them."
—Henry James
austintayeshus.blogspot.com

It doesn't matter WHAT you think about Weather Report...you've made it all about you.

And upon futher review, I'll stick with Weather Report. You're clearly tone deaf and full of yourself. Which isn't a crime...but just shut up, dude.

Someone should tell you that.

s.blak
I did...everything else is just frosting,player

'choons:
"soul in isolation." http://bit.ly/159yQaK
"jacques snicket." http://bit.ly/14iU9Xs
"pushed by wind." http://bit.ly/164IZGB
"I've always been interested in people, but I've never liked them."
—Henry James
austintayeshus.blogspot.com

its a good album IMO but it wasn't as good as I expected it to be

especially with the roster they had.....

still seem to prefer artists' early careers but you'll find a lit of gems later in artists' careers

now Rap is where this doesn't seem to be the case as much, for me anyway lol

most rappers release their best shit early on imo

i checked out that weather report album first though on a friend recomendation

rap is the genre where early work being the best is usually most true

Mysterious Traveller is probably my favorite record.

But anything up to about '82 is golden.

Incidentally, Joe Zawinul at Jazz Fest ('99 or so) was probably the worst concert I've ever seen. I was excited as shit, and his band was full of young mofos, but Zawinul evidently couldn't get the sounds he wanted out of his rig and spent the entire (short) gig fiddling with knobs.

was listening to Sweetnighter when i made the post & at least two samps were on there though i suck at remembering where samps are from usually

Zawinul seems to be an interesting figure...wrote In A Silent Way (i think, hope im not messing that up) but like i referred to, Miroslav Vitous seemed to think he was a huge douche

>Zawinul seems to be an interesting figure...wrote In A Silent
>Way (i think, hope im not messing that up) but like i referred
>to, Miroslav Vitous seemed to think he was a huge douche

When he was coming up with Cannonball Adderly's band.

But yeah, I think everybody thought he was a douche. He was a douche when I saw him.

But damn if he didn't have a way with melody.

You have "8:30," right? If not, that's the entry into Jaco-phase WR. Peter Erskine is like 19 years old on that record.

that's right, i think he's on the one Adderly record i have (74 Miles--he wrote that too didn't he?--/Walk Tall)

>You have "8:30," right? If not, that's the entry into
>Jaco-phase WR. Peter Erskine is like 19 years old on that
>record.

i don't but it's another one i've consistently passed over at my main vinyl spot, like i said i was *wrongly* biased thinking they were too commercial for me, if i had the doe i'd run scoop it tomorrow lol

Erskine kills on this live ECM trio record w/ Abercrombie & Marc Johnson

Well, okay, maybe not hits for Miles. . . but some of the tunes that stuck in Miles' live set for many years even after Joe left.

But for Cannonball, he wrote:
Mercy
Walk Tall
Country Preacher
74 Miles Away

Miles, he wrote:
In A Silent Way
Directions
(and others, but those are the big two)

'choons:
"soul in isolation." http://bit.ly/159yQaK
"jacques snicket." http://bit.ly/14iU9Xs
"pushed by wind." http://bit.ly/164IZGB
"I've always been interested in people, but I've never liked them."
—Henry James
austintayeshus.blogspot.com

s.blak
them m.f.'s is getting DOWN

in terms of a pure band on the fusion tip.

i enjoyed what they did and how it worked and flowed.

i enjoyed there live performances and how they held it down.

One of the best jazz groups of all time. No question. Different people prefer different eras (early Miroslav albums, mid-decade Alphonso Johnson, the Jaco years, and the 80s stuff) but there are gems throughout their discorgraphy. My favorite tracks:

-Cucumber Slumber (with an insane bass line from Alphonso Johnson)
-Freezing Fire (live)
-Black Market, Cannonball, Elegant People, Barbary Coast, Herandnu
-Birdland, Teen Town, Harlequin, Palladium, Havona
-River People, Young and Fine, Punk Jazz
-Port of Entry, Rockin in Rhythm, Three Views of a Secret (though I prefer the version on Jaco's Word of Mouth album)
- Volcano for Hire, NYC Part One
- This is This

with Pastorious or Vitous on bass

but like most jazz and fusion stuff my bias never checks for shit too deep the late 70s early 80s, though i do like Heavy Weather (77) a lot

It's a pretty short step from early-'70s WR to Mahavishnu.

i need to explore their discog as well as Return to Forever's

is the shit. get on that

Little less free-form and spacey than TIMF. But they're both great.

Fender rhodes>>> goofy prog-rock Moogs. I like "Birds of fire" too but it's not as good IMO; I actually think King Crimson did that sort of proto-math rock better a few years later in spite of a lacking jazz-influence.

As for Weather Report:Eh, i like the early albums to various extent but the Pastorius-era stuff is FAR too much clever music-school fusion for my tastes; songs like"Birdland" make me cringe.

Actually, they are my least favourite of the big fusion-actswhich is strange since I like Wayne Shorter more than practically any other musician involved in that scene but the band became too much of Zawinul's trip as they progressed.

Also, I don't like that Wayne primarily focused on soprano-sax as opposed to his tenor which IMO was his biggest strength; a waste of talent as far as I'm concerned...

>songs like"Birdland" make
>me cringe.

Of course it's overplayed, but that song is pure joy. Do you not like joy, man?

>Also, I don't like that Wayne primarily focused on soprano-sax
>as opposed to his tenor which IMO was his biggest strength; a
>waste of talent as far as I'm concerned...

Boo.

...that song represents a side of fusion I'm SO not fond of with the musicians playing those rhythmically complex (well) melody-lines in absolute perfect unison; it has very little to do with what I like about jazz or rock or anything else for that matter. Also, the song-like a lot of fusion in that vein-never really gets going IMO, it's just a long sequence of buildups to me; tension that isn't really tense not getting released.

As for the soprano-sax, I'm honestly not the biggest fan of that instrument even when Coltrane played it. I like it in really old jazz like Sidney Bechet and I like Steve Lacy (who of course was a pure soprano-player with old-school roots and not some guy who picked it up on the side because Coltrane made it hip) and Sam Rivers playing it (the latter I still prefer playing tenor and even flute) but there's something about the nasal tone that's not really my thing and Shorter's take on the instrument never really did it for me for some reason.

>...that song represents a side of fusion I'm SO not fond of
>with the musicians playing those rhythmically complex (well)
>melody-lines in absolute perfect unison; it has very little to
>do with what I like about jazz or rock or anything else for
>that matter.

Well, for me what I like about jazz and what I like about rock are two different things. Is is that a lot of fusion is very written, rather than improvised?

>Also, the song-like a lot of fusion in that
>vein-never really gets going IMO, it's just a long sequence of
>buildups to me; tension that isn't really tense not getting
>released.

Even the 8:30 version, with Erskine playing the ending vamp as a shuffle? Shit is orgasmic to me.

was extremely dissapointing to me after having heard the first record

i remember listening to it like....this is...ok...i guess....but..........

something about it struck me as "overplayed"....idk really..to me its a classic example that technical mastery doesnt always produce dope shit

with Cobham's drumming its really heavy and forceful music that still has a smooth factor under all the "rockish" dynamism

Grant Green & John Abercrombie are among my favorites

"jazz-ROCK" in the best sense of the word; more fusion should have sounded like that. It sounds less wanky and "clever" and more straight up psych-modal jamming and *ON* IMO even if the first Mahavishnu is killer as well...

I think that is their funkiest era. The entire Black Market album is ridiculous.

my mind up when i listen to it