If Kendrick lives up to the promise of his debut and section 80 he can def be something special and impactful...and Dre brought him out into the mainstream.

Even tho he didn't have as active role in the music as he did the others he still sorta responsible for gettin him out there and getting an ear.

To my count he has brought 4 certifed game changers into rap.

D.O.C.
Snoop
Em
50.

I been debating on if The Game is one or not he is def a tier or two under the other 4 but that shit is remarkable.

4 rappers who will go down as legend commerical and critical and who had an impact came out under Dre. THe Doc did it with one damn album but his work and writing with Dre/NWA makes him a game changer..the way he basically keep them afloat as mcs after Cube left is overlook.

I'm thinking who else is in the running who have brought 4 or more legends/superstars up under them as a tutor.

its early as hell but if Kendrick make it number 5 that's just add on to his legacy and keep him relevant musically that much more cause Kendrick will proably always pay respect and give DRe shine if he blow up.

>
>D.O.C. - only one album
>Snoop - Doggystyle is a classic everything else is whatever and he's become a joke.
>Em - other than his flow/delivery/patterns...nothing more than a gimmick with not one classic album.
>50 - beyond overrated. will never be respected as a true MC and his only listenable album is only mentioned due to its hype.

Dre is the king of hype. Shit, even his production. For whatever reason, people buy into whatever hype Dre is selling. Even his cheaply made, expensive ass headphones.

None of this has anything to do with Kendrick...I will listen to his album and form my opinion based on the quality, but I think people need to start being honest about Dres mediocre ass output.

>>
>>D.O.C. - only one album
>>Snoop - Doggystyle is a classic everything else is whatever
>and he's become a joke.
>>Em - other than his flow/delivery/patterns...nothing more
>than a gimmick with not one classic album.
>>50 - beyond overrated. will never be respected as a true MC
>and his only listenable album is only mentioned due to its
>hype.
>
>Dre is the king of hype. Shit, even his production. For
>whatever reason, people buy into whatever hype Dre is selling.
> Even his cheaply made, expensive ass headphones.
>
>None of this has anything to do with Kendrick...I will listen
>to his album and form my opinion based on the quality, but I
>think people need to start being honest about Dres mediocre
>ass output.
>
http://media.photobucket.com/image/tell%20em%20why%20you%20mad%20son%20gif/afkamp/5511960d.gif
>

I'm speaking the truth.

But I don't expect you to respond with any substance ever so keep up the half ass funny shit. It's a great way to mask your true lack of intelligence.

Maybe every morning you can hit me with an inbox to let me know.

Honestly, how juvenile of a response is "you're mad"?

How old are you dude?

I would like o think you're better than that.

Oh yea, and I'm still waiting for you to actually add something to the conversation.

It's hilarious how the usual suspects whose intelligence doesn't allow them to discuss the topic are somehow smart enough to k ow how another person is feeling through a computer.

okay, player.

player.

Your bitch ass agenda is one of the things that plagues this place.

Enjoy your Sunday, sport.

as has the last 10 years or so of his music but to call his output "mediocre" is pretty silly. Dude's created classics that fundamentally altered the genre. Nothing can take that away from him.

I am not arguing that he has indeed brought 'game changers' to hip-hop.

I am just questioning the actual quality of output that those game changers have had.

Outside of No One Can Do It Better, The Chronic, and Doggystyle, his work is forgettable.

And to be honest, I can't even listen to The Chronic and Doggystyle like that any more.

Em's output is trash all around.

50 was always a joke to me.

Again, not saying that they haven't had an impact, because that would be silly. I'm just saying that the impact doesn't hold much weight to me because the quality is not great to me.

>I am not arguing that he has indeed brought 'game changers'
>to hip-hop.
>
>I am just questioning the actual quality of output that those
>game changers have had.


Really, dog? Really?

Shit is disgusting....lol....It's one thing to say that you thought S.O.C. was overrated or you just didn't dig it...But that album is/was anything but forgettable...

I'm just shaking my head...

Dre was a part of NWA. We were discussing MCs that he put his stamp on.

Go ahead and add SOC to my list of keepers and it doesn't void the fact that Em, 50, Game, and for the most part Snoop have been more hype than quality.

>Dre was a part of NWA. We were discussing MCs that he put
>his stamp on.
>
>Go ahead and add SOC to my list of keepers and it doesn't void
>the fact that Em, 50, Game, and for the most part Snoop have
>been more hype than quality.

Man...go ahead with that bullshit...lol

We talking DOC, Above The Law, a Death Row lineup that was mashing at their height and yeah....Ice Cube and Eazy...In addition to Snoop, Em and even 50....(hell, take Game out of the equation...never was a big fan of dude....)

Again, Dre is not beyond criticism...But that shit you talking?

It's just that...shit...lol

yea I was not inculding NWA he wasn't they mentor.

and your point is still terrible, as is whatever that tripe you typed about Eminem & Snoop's careers going for multiple decades off 'hype'.

LMAO @ this 'outside the five or six classic albums & putting on several rap legends he ain't shit' logic.

>as is whatever that tripe you typed about Eminem & Snoop's careers going for multiple decades off 'hype'.


^^^^^This....

Shit, Em would tell you that.

Every first video was a funny song with a funny video ranking on other TRL artists that were pop acts as opposed to hip-hop act.

Tell me you're not trying to tell me Ems career isn't based off of that shit

Em is one of the most gifted and unique lyricists to ever touch a Mic. This isn't even debatle IMO no matter how you feel about his voice. Yes his "mainstream" success might have been influenced by a funny video and parody nature and his antics at first. But that was 13 years ago man. The last time he put out an album it was reasonably "gimmick free" unless you say that his screaming all over the place is a gimmick now, and that album sold like crazy.

I feel like people just twist their brain around facts some points and say shit that is borderline ridiculous just because it's "subjectively their opinion" and they can get away with it. And then they try act like THATS the majority opinion, and come off like a fuckin dolt like you just did.

>Em is one of the most gifted and unique lyricists to ever
>touch a Mic. This isn't even debatle IMO no matter how you
>feel about his voice.

I never said he wasn't

Yes his "mainstream" success might have
>been influenced by a funny video and parody nature and his
>antics at first. But that was 13 years ago man.

Really? Every album up until Recovery was lead off by gimmicky ass single and video. And you're trying to say that I'm the one making sit up in my mind?

The last time
>he put out an album it was reasonably "gimmick free" unless
>you say that his screaming all over the place is a gimmick
>now, and that album sold like crazy.
>

I could say that but I'm not. Recovery was also trash. But Em has earned himself a lifetime pass. People will buy whatever he puts out at this point. Fact is, he gained his mainstream success wih gimmicks. To argue that he didnt is as crazy as arguing that he is t a gifted lyricist.

>I feel like people just twist their brain around facts some
>points and say shit that is borderline ridiculous just because
>it's "subjectively their opinion" and they can get away with
>it. And then they try act like THATS the majority opinion, and
>come off like a fuckin dolt like you just did.
>
>

Really dude? Shut the fuck up. You just said the last time Em used a gimmick was 1999.

and misunderstood that you were strongly referring to the "first video" meaning thats where the buzz and single was placed from, even though I'm not sure If I'm still agreeing completely, I concede what you were saying.

But his "career" is much more than just what a video and a single could do, he's just a good artist that has great body of work, some spotty albums here and there, but the fans come back not just because they seen some parody shit.

too to really cement they legacy well besides the DOC...I Think the Em show Em produced it all himself didn't he?

but yea Snoop made Last meal, the top dogg, RBG..he has made quality and hits without dre he is a legend.

Em made shit great shit without dre most think Em best shit is without Dre.

50 GRODT is a classic and Massacre was banging and he stay making quality shit and change shit when he came out with the mixtapes and impact...shit u could say he had as much with putting GAme out as dre did.

But the fact that all these people have put other folks on shows you how much of a legend and ear for talent DRe has

And this is why hip hop fans can be the worst at times....

We just love tearing down OUR legends, don't we? It never fails...

Dr. Dre has been making records since 1986....Yet, to the hip-hop fan he hasn't saved up enough capital...He hasn't done enough, right?

Is he above criticism? Nope...But if you believed some folks on this site they will tell you that Dr. Dre is the luckiest producer/visionary of all time...

The shit is mind-blowing...

Straight Outta Compton, Chronic, Doggystyle, No One Can Do It Better and you can even add in Chronic 2 are quality.

But when discussing the MCs that he has brought in, I ink ose MCs have benefited more from having the Dre association than their actual quality.

Is that really that unfair.

I know you said Dre wasn't above criticism but it seems like the quick reaction to my post would say otherwise.

output. You can't undo everything he has done before that, but fact of the matter is this: Snoop was more a flash in the pan than an artist with staying power, I don't find any of Eminem's albums fulfilling, and 50 Cent is not that good (I can't even imagine calling a guy that produced one decent album a "legend"). All of this can be stated without detracting from what Dr. Dre has done.

>Snoop was more a flash in the pan
>than an artist with staying power, I don't find any of
>Eminem's albums fulfilling, and 50 Cent is not that good (I
>can't even imagine calling a guy that produced one decent
>album a "legend").

lol...

I just think folks need to learn that what you personally like has nothing to do with reality...

I thought that was an implicit/actually pretty explicit understanding

>
>I thought that was an implicit/actually pretty explicit
>understanding


U not getting it....

If you were to tell me that you think Dre is overrated or that you find Snoop wack, that is your opinion...I would not agree, but I would respect that....

But when folks start saying that Dre doesn't really have a game-changing catalogue or that Snoop was a flash in the pan artist, that is not associated with any kind of truth or reality...

It's possible to not like a music act and still acknowledge their impact overall...

so I will admit that Snoop has been in the game a long time, but I won't call an artist a legend if I dislike the majority of his or her output. Plenty of artists have released more albums than Snoop that suck more than he does. Except for doggystyle and a little of paid tha cost, I think his individual output has been really lackluster....that's my reality, I don't acknowledge someone as a great "artist" just because they have a long track record. Sorry

>
>so I will admit that Snoop has been in the game a long time,
>but I won't call an artist a legend if I dislike the majority
>of his or her output. Plenty of artists have released more
>albums than Snoop that suck more than he does. Except for
>doggystyle and a little of paid tha cost, I think his
>individual output has been really lackluster....that's my
>reality, I don't acknowledge someone as a great "artist" just
>because they have a long track record. Sorry


Cool...so make a post stating that YOU think Snoop sucks....Make a post that YOU feel Dre is overrated...

But saying that Snoop and Dre are not legends?

That's just silly...

I know folks that think the Bee Gees suck...They think that disco is crap...They don't fit their personal taste (as you say)...

But they will still acknowledge that they are legends because their overall impact to their genre cannot be denied...

See how that works?

All that I said was that there is nothing wrong with the argument that his recent musical output hasn't been that great and the so called legends he produced - Snoop, Eminem and 50 Cent - aren't necessarily legends. I will not acknowledge 50 Cent as a legend, I don't give a fuck who says that I have to, it's ridiculous to even use that word anywhere near his name. Frankly, none of those 3 are even in the same league as the Bee Gees

just because YOU dont like him. thats just silly

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

>>
>>I thought that was an implicit/actually pretty explicit
>>understanding
>
>
>U not getting it....
>
>If you were to tell me that you think Dre is overrated or that
>you find Snoop wack, that is your opinion...I would not agree,
>but I would respect that....
>
>But when folks start saying that Dre doesn't really have a
>game-changing catalogue or that Snoop was a flash in the pan
>artist, that is not associated with any kind of truth or
>reality...
>


I clearly said that i would not argue that these people were game changers.

What's hard to understand about that murph?

>It's possible to not like a music act and still acknowledge
>their impact overall...

That is exactly what I did.

And my point remains...Em, Snoop, 50, and Game are more hype than quality.

You seem to keep bringing up NWA, DOC etc. which I already agreed to.

>And my point remains...Em, Snoop, 50, and Game are more hype
>than quality.


Why include Game though?

He is not even in the conversation in my opinion...And even if you want to throw 50 out, saying that Snoop, Dre and Em are more hype is just puzzling...

I think they have enough classics (Em, Dre, and Snoop) to make such a point seem silly...

And separate what you feel about a music act with their actual impact, whether it's critical or commercial acclaim, social, cultural impact, influence on other acts, ect...

>
>>And my point remains...Em, Snoop, 50, and Game are more hype
>>than quality.
>
>
>Why include Game though?
>

The original post mentioned Game. I think he is more of a Dre off spring than Cube or anyone else in NWA.


>He is not even in the conversation in my opinion...And even if
>you want to throw 50 out, saying that Snoop, Dre and Em are
>more hype is just puzzling...
>
>I think they have enough classics (Em, Dre, and Snoop) to make
>such a point seem silly...
>

Between Dre, Snoop, and Em...I will give you a total of 3 classics. Take your pick between 2001 or whichever Em album you want to over rate the fuck out of.

>And separate what you feel about a music act with their actual
>impact, whether it's critical or commercial acclaim, social,
>cultural impact, influence on other acts, ect...

Oh believe me I am. I'm the main one on this site that preaches that shit.

>
>output. You can't undo everything he has done before that, but
>fact of the matter is this: Snoop was more a flash in the pan
>than an artist with staying power, I don't find any of
>Eminem's albums fulfilling, and 50 Cent is not that good (I
>can't even imagine calling a guy that produced one decent
>album a "legend"). All of this can be stated without
>detracting from what Dr. Dre has done.

album since. I don't think that he has maintained quality artistic output, this doesn't mean that he hasn't had records deals since and put out albums...they've just been wack. Understand now?

I get it dude, you think Snoop sucks sorta like I (along with most rationale people who possess a modicum of writing/reading skills) think 'flash in the pan artist with staying power' is a poorly-formed & illogical turn of phrase.

and he never regained that commercial or critical success. I know that he is famous for smoking weed and izzle, but he was a flash in the pan artist to me. I don't see where you're calling me on bullshit. You obviously didn't understand what I said, so I clarified the statement. You got it now though right?

he changed his carrer after going to NO limit to come back and make 2 good albums...Topp Dogg and last meal..than he made hits with Pharrel.

you forgetting how big Beautiful and drop it like its hot was..then made an quality album again with Blue carptet treament when folks had written him off again.

I mean you can not like him but writing him off as some one album flash in the pan is just lying.

I'm being 100% honest. I think his No Limit albums were trash. I admit that he made a couple of hits with the Neptunes, but I never listen to any of those albums. I checked them out when they dropped, but thought that they weren't good. Like "Vato," but the majority of the album was weak. I can't imagine that I'm the only one who thinks most of his albums suck.

DA game is to be sold was trash but after that his other 2 NO limit albums was good.

fan. I respect his output though, Snoop has stayed around a long time

And they didn't have any on Tha Last Meal. Just saying.

or do you still not get it?

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

'flash in the pan with staying power' is a clear contradiction in terms & therefore would fail as an assessment of anything.

If you had started with 'I think Snoop sucks' while I would have disagreed with you (to me he's done plenty of good stuff since The Chronic & his debut) I wouldn't have actually been able to say that it was a fallacious statement because that would have been a matter of opinion.

Do you get *that* yet?

I'm here to help you do better.

>fact of the matter is this: Snoop was more a flash in the pan
>than an artist with staying power

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

I'm speaking facts no matter how you feel about Em or 50 or snoop they are legends in they own right.

My point is that a "legend" is sometimes deceiving.

I'm not arguing that they are legends and "game changers".

I'm just making the point that the quality of their work really isn't that good.

As soon as I say that, everyone starts crying.

I'm sorry if 15 year old white girl validation doesn't make me call something a classic.

>I'm sorry if 15 year old white girl validation doesn't make me
>call something a classic.

this is not the One direction board its an ass of mags, blogs, folks on here, and others who say this shit also if you don't agree fine but don't act like alot of them opinions ain't out there.

Because you still can't defend the trash that some of these artists put out.

But you're my boy and we've done this before. You like a lot of music. I respect that.

I just am not willing to say something is classic just because it had an impact.

If that were the case, Hammer and Vanilla Ice would have classics.

that's where you headed wrong its not all about sales either.

>that's where you headed wrong its not all about sales
>either.




^^^^^^^^^

>I just am not willing to say something is classic just because
>it had an impact.
>
>If that were the case, Hammer and Vanilla Ice would have
>classics.

OKP and Character Map are hating.

>>D.O.C. - only one album
>but I
>think people need to start being honest about Dres mediocre
>ass output.

Straight Outta Compton
Efil4zaggin
No One Can Do It Better
The Chronic
Doggystyle
Chronic 2001
Slim Shady LP
Marshall Mathers LP
Get Rich or Die Tryin'

And those are just the albums he had a HEAVY hand in. I can break down a trillion classics he produced within random LPs.

Mediocre he says! Look at that list!!! Like, I dunno, 5 of the greatest rap albums of all time are within that list.

Say what you want about the fact that he basically hasn't done anything music related in 6 years or more, but that output speaks for itself. And it never uses the word "mediocre," not one time.

The desperation in this thread is palpable. I fully expect it to devolve into Beneath The Heavens >>>>>>>>>>>>> Doggystyle/Chronic by the time the Presidential debate is over tonight.

>>>D.O.C. - only one album
>>but I
>>think people need to start being honest about Dres mediocre
>>ass output.
>
>Straight Outta Compton
>Efil4zaggin
>No One Can Do It Better
>The Chronic
>Doggystyle
>Chronic 2001
>Slim Shady LP
>Marshall Mathers LP
>Get Rich or Die Tryin'
>


I could live without all of those albums not named Doggystyle or No One Can Do It Better.

Sorry, I just don't reach for those albums like that. I understand the place of NWA but when I go back, I go back for Rakim, De La, PE etc.

And I never fucked with Em or 50. They both were wack as fuck to me from day one.


>And those are just the albums he had a HEAVY hand in. I can
>break down a trillion classics he produced within random LPs.
>
>Mediocre he says! Look at that list!!! Like, I dunno, 5 of the
>greatest rap albums of all time are within that list.
>

Try to differentiate greatest from best for the purpose of this conversation. There's a HUGE difference.


>Say what you want about the fact that he basically hasn't done
>anything music related in 6 years or more, but that output
>speaks for itself. And it never uses the word "mediocre," not
>one time.

To you.

Your original statement was "people need to start being honest about Dre's mediocre ass output". In other words, basically stating that the majority's opinion about his work, quality and impact is somehow wrong.

But then, when I respond about the general consensus and impact of his career, you switch the argument to "well that's your opinion".

Make up your mind. "People need to be honest" about their own opinions, clearly you agree. You, whether you like it or not, are in the minority on this issue.

You're more than entitled to your opinion on Dre's body of work and the quality of it. But to deny the fact that he has had MAJOR impact on the genre, or to criticize others' opinions then scream "well that's YOUR opinion" when called on it is disingenuous and confused.

And honestly, I'm not trying to be a dick here. I just find it confusing that you can essentially say "your opinions are wrong!" in one post, then respond only claiming "well this is MY opinion" as if opinions can be right or wrong.

And no one replied directly to my point and instead came on here like their feelings were hurt.

Snoop has Doggystyle and nothing great after. I understand he has some albums that people like but nothing is a classic other than his debut.

Em has no classics. His career has been a gimmick and his lead singles are novelty songs. I do give Dre a ton of credit for bringing him out because it worked like a charm with the ignorant hip-hop fan. And I say this while holding he opinion that there may not be an MC better than Em in regards to rhyme structure.

D.O.C. has a classic album but I don't know if I can say that he was a "game changer"

50s career has been based around hype since How To Rob. Also, Em brought him out and used Dre for the first single and for his machine. 50 was everywhere with the mix tapes so that was a homerun for these dudes.

So those are the people that were listed in this post as "game changers" along with Kendrick which Dre hasn't even done anything with.

My problem is that people on his site want to sweep Dres negatives under the rug.

I'm not trying to take anything away from him. NWA, Chronic, Doggystyle, and No One Can Do It Better are all great. And then he has some good output on top of that.

I just don't think he doesn't have flaws like people in this post.

He has a ton of artists that were shelved. Artists like Em and Snoop have more mediocre shit than not. And he ghost production stories is a knock because there is just too many of them.

Dre is a legend and I put him on the Mount Rushmore for his impact.

But his impact is greater than his quality when you actual break it down.

If people turn a blind eye to that then it's on them.

I just find the amounts of mad in this post at the thought of a negative thing about Dre being possible is hilarious.

>And no one replied directly to my point and instead came on
>here like their feelings were hurt.

I replied directly to you saying "people need to be honest about Dre's mediocre output".


>Snoop has Doggystyle and nothing great after. I understand he
>has some albums that people like but nothing is a classic
>other than his debut.

Your opinion.


>Em has no classics.

Your opinion.


>His career has been a gimmick and his
>lead singles are novelty songs.

Your opinion.


>I do give Dre a ton of credit
>for bringing him out because it worked like a charm with the
>ignorant hip-hop fan.

And now we get to the gist of your issue. You spew your opinion like it's gospel and claim that the rest of us need to "start being honest" about where Dre really stands in the pantheon of hip-hop. When in reality, not only are we all entitled to our OWN opinions like you are, but THE MAJORITY of rap fans are on the other side of this particular issue from you.

My point was that you're speaking out of both sides of your mouth. Which is it? Are we all entitled to our opinions like you are? Or is anyone who disagrees with you (which again, in this case, happens to be the majority of people) "wrong" and need to start "being honest" about Dre? It's such a ridiculous discussion to have to have with an adult that I can't believe I'm still talking about it.

This whole "it worked like a charm with the ignorant hip-hop fan" is not only a ridiculous statement, it's insulting to the millions of actual rap fans who may agree with your overall sentiment that the marketing of Eminem was unfortunate because it outshined everything else about him, but still can see the IMMENSE WRITING TALENT HE POSSESSES. Not to mention that hiphop fans are probably split just about 50/50 on whether or not he has a classic album.


>And I say this while holding he opinion
>that there may not be an MC better than Em in regards to rhyme
>structure.

At least you recognize that.


>D.O.C. has a classic album but I don't know if I can say that
>he was a "game changer"

Sure.


>50s career has been based around hype since How To Rob. Also,
>Em brought him out and used Dre for the first single and for
>his machine. 50 was everywhere with the mix tapes so that was
>a homerun for these dudes.

That's fine. But let's look at facts. Dre exec produced both Get Rich...and The Massacre. One is widely considered the best debut album of the 00s, sold ridiculously well, and spawned, what, 4 or 5 billboard topping singles not to mention potentially the most popular rap song of the 00s; and the other achieved the best first week sales in the history of music at the time and spawned more popular singles and was critically acclaimed. What have his non-Dre-involved albums done since then? Shit. Where is his career now? He's starting YouTube fights and selling vitamin water. I'm sure he's still financially in great shape, but his music fell apart once Dre stepped aside.


>So those are the people that were listed in this post as "game
>changers" along with Kendrick which Dre hasn't even done
>anything with.

Again, your opinion on their music is your opinion, but to deny that, at the very least, Snoop and Eminem made a HUGE impact on the music is being dishonest. The facts are not on your side.

Snoop's sound, lazy drawl, flow, style, dress, etc., were widely emulated for YEARS after Doggystyle came out. I'm saying most of the 90s. Whether or not you think he's made any good music since is irrelevent, he STILL has impact on his genre even if it's just based on his persona more than the actual music. But, regardless of his current status, AT THE TIME HE CAME OUT, there is NO DENYING that he changed the game, which is the point of this post.

Eminem coming out spawned about, I dunno, 6 trillion copy-cat white rappers for years following his initial release. Rappers attacked him (Benzino, Canibus) just for the sake of attacking the popular white guy. People emulated his style, emulated his music, shit motherfuckers were straight up BLEACHING THEIR HAIR just to look like the guy. Game changer..the point of this post.

50 Cent, again, whether or not you like him, also changed the direction of rap upon his debut, although to a lesser extent. For the 4 or 5+ years prior to his release, gangsta rap style had taken a back seat to the more soulful stuff, the more conscious stuff. 50 Cent's major label release brought gangsta rap back to the forefront and again, rappers were emulating the style, going harder on tracks, making rougher beats, etc. Game changer. The point of this post.

Again, your opinion of their music is sort of irrelevent to the point of this post. Whether you like it or not, the music Dre has released in his career has broken rap barriers of their respective times more often than they haven't.


>My problem is that people on his site want to sweep Dres
>negatives under the rug.

That's really neither here nor there. You responded directly to the original post about "game changers" saying Dre has "mediocre output", ignoring the larger point that regardless of your indivudual opinion, Dre has had and housed artists who have had MAJOR IMPACT on the genre.


>I'm not trying to take anything away from him. NWA, Chronic,
>Doggystyle, and No One Can Do It Better are all great. And
>then he has some good output on top of that.

Then stop taking it away from him. Your whole argument is based on taking things away from him.


>I just don't think he doesn't have flaws like people in this
>post.

Again, this is off subject, but I'd love for you to point out ANYWHERE in this post or on this board where anyone said that Dre was without flaws and perfect. Actually, don't waste your time. Cause no one ever said that.


>He has a ton of artists that were shelved. Artists like Em
>and Snoop have more mediocre shit than not.

Your opinion. Irrelevent to the point of this post.


>And he ghost
>production stories is a knock because there is just too many
>of them.

Without proof they're just that...stories. Prove one of them and I'll give it some thought. Otherwise, they have to be written off as pure jealousy trying to take down the man on the top. Anyone that matters in rap (his peers like Pete Rock, Primo; and rappers who matter who have worked with him) will sing his praises because they don't have reasons to be jealous of him (Daz, for example, did have reason to be).


>Dre is a legend and I put him on the Mount Rushmore for his
>impact.

That's all you needed to say


>But his impact is greater than his quality when you actual
>break it down.

Your opinion, and you're in the minority.


>If people turn a blind eye to that then it's on them.

What you meant to say is "if people disagree with me then that's their opinion". Again, this is your problem. You can't just say "I don't like his music" without telling the rest of us "the fact that you do like his music is a problem and you're wrong for liking it". I don't understand this thought process at all.


>I just find the amounts of mad in this post at the thought of
>a negative thing about Dre being possible is hilarious.

People's "amount of mad" has nothing to do with you saying "a negative thing about Dre". The "amount of mad" is about someone (you) trying to tell the majority that they need to "be honest" about their own opinions (in other words, telling us we need to change ours to match up with yours because yours is right) rather than just saying what you, after much prying, finally acknowledged above: Anonymous doesn't think Dre's work is all that good, but agrees that his impact is 2nd to none. He recognizes that the majority of rap fans disagree with him but still is entitled to his own opinion, just like the rest of us are ours. But Dre's impact is undenyable.

This is simple.

You really think that I didn't understand the original post.

The post was about Dre bringing in game changers in which I replied:

"So the fuck what, the people he brought in have mediocre output at best"

You're right it is simple. That's my opinion.

And please tell me why if everyone is entitled to their opinion, people are coming at me because my opinion of Dre was less favorable than they would like it to be?

Everyone wants to play the nice card of "everyone is entitled to their opinion" when it's convenient right?

Funny how no one just let me state my opinion of Dre being mediocre as hell and feel the need to continue pointless conversations.

If that's what it really is, then why the fuck did you respond to me?

Because I clearly did not deny he impact of any of these artists.

I just said I didn't give a fuck because the quality of their music is weak.

>You really think that I didn't understand the original post.
>
>The post was about Dre bringing in game changers in which I
>replied:
>
>"So the fuck what, the people he brought in have mediocre
>output at best"
>
>You're right it is simple. That's my opinion.
>
>And please tell me why if everyone is entitled to their
>opinion, people are coming at me because my opinion of Dre was
>less favorable than they would like it to be?
>
>Everyone wants to play the nice card of "everyone is entitled
>to their opinion" when it's convenient right?

Because you say shit like "people need to start being honest about Dre's mediocre output", and "for some reason, people buy whatever hype Dre is selling". Which is essentially calling us out on our own thoughts about his music, insulting the rest of us for listening to Dre as people who just buy into hype. No, we like his music. That's all.

It also insults Dre's impact on the game to say that Dre only made money because of "hype". Well where do you think the hype came from? It doesn't come from nowhere. There's gotta be a point where people actually LIKE his shit before "hype" can come into play.

Feel free to talk about your opinion but don't start acting like we all need to join you in your thoughts to make our opinions more valuable.

That's why people get pissed. Or, I guess I should just speak for myself...that's the part that bothers ME about your original post. You couldn't just say "nah I don't ride for Dre's music like that but I respect his impact". You gotta say "people need to start being honest about" whatever you don't like. Why do we need to change our thoughts?

Your original response didn't even answer the question.


>Funny how no one just let me state my opinion of Dre being
>mediocre as hell and feel the need to continue pointless
>conversations.
>
>If that's what it really is, then why the fuck did you respond
>to me?
>
>Because I clearly did not deny he impact of any of these
>artists.
>
>I just said I didn't give a fuck because the quality of their
>music is weak.

>>
>>D.O.C. - only one album
>>Snoop - Doggystyle is a classic everything else is whatever
>and he's become a joke.
>>Em - other than his flow/delivery/patterns...nothing more
>than a gimmick with not one classic album.
>>50 - beyond overrated. will never be respected as a true MC
>and his only listenable album is only mentioned due to its
>hype.
>
>Dre is the king of hype. Shit, even his production. For
>whatever reason, people buy into whatever hype Dre is selling.
> Even his cheaply made, expensive ass headphones.
>
>None of this has anything to do with Kendrick...I will listen
>to his album and form my opinion based on the quality, but I
>think people need to start being honest about Dres mediocre
>ass output.
>
>
>

I totally agree with you on Eminem. Besides lyrics, concepts, flows, and delivery, what else did he bring to the table?

I didn't say he didn bring anything to the table.

I said I dont think what he brought other than his rhyme patterns was any good.

His concepts sucked, his cry baby ass voice sucks, his beats suck, his hooks suck.

on having consistently terrible opinions

That means a lot coming from someone on okp in 2012.

You can proceeed to shut the fuck up now.

DO YOU ACCEPT?

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

Just kiddin... am I?

Busta, Rakim, Last Emp, Eve, Kurupt, Truth Hurts, Knocturnal, singer from Floetry, another half dozen or so rappers, every "flavor of the month" producer he took under his wing whose output suddenly disappeared...



"Your current frequencies of understanding outweigh that which has been given for you to understand." Saul Williams

"Commercial" Gangster-rap savant.

iono.

Just speculating.

Challenger-

a minus I suppose.

there wasn't a mentor role really...I guess you can say Eazy was the boss but he ain't really bring Cube or Dre out...they all did that as one.

now Bone I'll give you he mentor them...I don't think he really mentor or brought out the Balck eye peas either.

http://www.discogs.com/artist/Mel-Man/-Releases/-Albums#Credits_Production=&t=Credits_Production&q=&p=1

Does he live off 2001 royalties?

warren g?

should get some credit tho.

He tutored a lot of early producers including Pete Rock and DJ Premier. If you look at his influence in the radio game as well with rap attack and future flavors, he has left an indelible mark on hip-hop

He's a good pick as well.....And he also helped put on Heavy D (RIP)

crew and Rakim? and he really mentor and brought them out or did they came out around the same time?

Like was he already the elder famous statesmen and folks use his name to get out there?

I really want to know...folks say he was rap first superproducer they say.

taught them production techniques and he seemed to be the first major producer to have a stable of artists. That was also a different time in hip-hip because they all hung out together - artists and producers - so you can't parse out who showed who what, but Preem always drops Marley's name when talking about greatest producers.....as well as Dre though, so I wouldn't necessarily place one above the other and a good argument could be made for either one.

he also getting the dre thing with alot of folks now saying he didn't do all things he getting credit for that comes with the fame tho.

he left? I think Daz is a really talented beat maker, but Dre is a producer. His track record with NWA, the Chronics, Doggy Style and the Dogg Pound speaks for itself

Roxanne Shante,
Big Daddy Kane,
Biz Markie,
DJ Polo,
Kool G. Rap,
Master Ace,
MC Shan,
Craig G,
Grandaddy I.U.,

among a number of others.

...Probably his ghost producers....and 2 of those 4 are weak...imo of course...

folks will come out out of the woodwork to say he's overrated, wack etc..

there legends who aren't East Coast. I have a feeling they're going to be extra salty now that Kendrick is about to get universal acclaim.

Look at some of the replies...

Look at some of the replies...

Jay, Kanye

I was thinking more of an artist.

the guy you'd name first anyway.

and anybody claiming anything different is a fucking clown and an out and out liar.

The discussion is how many producers have brought as many legends to the forefront as Dre, and if you got half a brain you better add Ice Cube to that list too, give a fuck if he defected or wrote all the raps.

Dr. Dre finds legends, point blank, anybody trying to argue that is a clown trying to get one off on some contrarian bullshit and can suck a dick. . . my bad.

and for those who want to argue please list off those who have a greater impact or have been more successful than SNOOP, EMINEM, AND 50. . . I'll wait.

he wasn't really a mentor to Cube...I guess Dre was sorta out first with World class wrecking Cru but he wasn't the season vet bringing Cube out with his stamp out...the first person he did that too imo is THe D.O.C.

but I guess you could almost say no Dre no Cube, and vice versa.

Cube was the force on that first album.

to how many ppl he put on. And from the sounds of things didn't try to squeeze himself into the deal or rip off anybody which is pretty rare

Another good one....Although, would you consider Red a producer?

also if you take into the amount of QUALITY that these people ended up producing.....they win

to actually bring new west coast artists in.

As you can see by these Eeyore-ass-posts in the Lesson, ageism is rampant in hip hop.

can we really count 50 and Kendrick?

When did Dre hop on those wagons?

50 was going to be huge regardless and was killing it with the mix tapes and then Em signed him and Dre gave him In Da Club.

Can we really say that Dre brought him in?

And I may be wrong, but was Dre around for Section 80? because if not, Kendrick built up his own hype.

and Dre didn't even produce on this new album.

So what is he actually doing besides cosigning?

And how easy is that when he probably gets to hear every single hot act coming from LA and has a pick of whoever he wants to ride with?

but hey, y'all keep sucking his dick.

yeah, he had buzz
but he ain't have no hits
to go along with the buzz
just mixtape shit
which just isn't good enough
dre's cosign gave him legitimacy
as an "artist"
and access

puttin' on mean he didn't give 50 talent
yeah, 50 had/has the talent
as a gatekeeper, dre helped him get the exposure
he wanted/needed

you can't discount that

>yeah, he had buzz
>but he ain't have no hits
>to go along with the buzz
>just mixtape shit
>which just isn't good enough
>dre's cosign gave him legitimacy
>as an "artist"
>and access
>
>puttin' on mean he didn't give 50 talent
>yeah, 50 had/has the talent
>as a gatekeeper, dre helped him get the exposure
>he wanted/needed
>
>you can't discount that


You know how this shit works. These people look for the hottest artist out before they co-sign.

50 was a very easy co-sign with the following he was growing. Dre knows his co-sign would put him over the top.

But anyone could have co-signed. Only difference is, people will take a Dre co-sign as gospel. That right there makes it even easier.

i forgot about wanksta
that mighta been a hit without dre
but in the club? huge
em cosigned 50 first
and yeah dre hopped on
but with dre, 50 had access to the machine
which is what he wanted
which made him larger

>i forgot about wanksta
>that mighta been a hit without dre
>but in the club? huge
>em cosigned 50 first
>and yeah dre hopped on
>but with dre, 50 had access to the machine
>which is what he wanted
>which made him larger
>

Dre has the machine. He can make anyone into a star if he wants.

So how hard is it to pick talent that has already proven itself (50 and Kendrick) and put them into the machine?

It's like the Yankees buying up all of the best players to win. Now they don't always win because the plan doesn't always work. And nothing is different with Dre and that can be compared to the number of artists he was going to work with and never released or the number of artists that flopped.

But sooner or later you will win. Point is that he wins less than he loses. We just aren't counting those losses and in some cases putting it on the artist at that point.

When we talk about bringing in game changers, I would respect more of what he did with Em. Em is like Jeter who came up through the farm system.

My whole point is that that is not how Dre usually operates.

He co-signs A-Rods and Sabathias all day long.

How is he honestly getting credit for Kendrick?

I understand he gave 50 In Da Club...but he didn't give Kendrick shit!

not many of the west coast vets
fuck with the young niggas out here
the new comers often complain the dres, snoops, quiks, etc
ain't fuckin' with them
and makin' it hard to make noise
so with dre givin' kendrick a cosign, he's openin' the doors
and showin' support for the newer up and comin' generation
of west coasters

sorta like how jungle brothers were big
and they threw their cosign behind tribe and de la
who went on to blow up bigger than the jbs and open other
paths for the likes of the black sheep and beatnuts, etc

that's how i'm lookin' at it

i don't know if somebody in here is sayin' dre is the best
at it or whatever, but whether hype or substantiated, dre's
name holds weight, and with that weight behind you, it's up to
you how far you go

look at game...got that cosign, and still around
game had been grindin' in obscurity fuckin' with other bay area rappers tryin' to get put on, makin' mixtape after mixtape, song
after song
got dre and fifty behind him, and boom! can't stop him

i don't know if game is considered a game changer, no pun intended

wanksta was a hit fam

>wanksta was a hit fam


But "Wanksta" didn't make 50 a global star...

"In The Club" did....

it says something in having an eye for talent and knowing who to bring out...

You right dre hears every hot artist so does Quik, DJ pooh, Cold 187, primo, pete all kind of people...

but they don't bring out Game changers the way Dre has...there is something too that.

Look at all the people who pass on Em, Snoop was making demos with Sir Jinx before dre...Kendrick has been around been sign since he was 18 but now with DRe he getting that shine to knock it out the park.

Come on dude. Yes...he brings out game changers...I said that...my whole point in his post has been that its not difficult for Dre.

People are sheep. Quik never had Dres success so a co-sign from him isn't worth as much.

should it be hard to bring out game changers?
if you got an eye for grooming and polishing
that should be celebrated, right?

Dre has?

Most people tend to put on their boys when they shouldn't.

Dre always knew how to separate his business and friendships.

Dre now grooms the easiest, most proven, acts.

I honestly don't even know how people are arguing otherwise.

My Yankees analogy was spot on. He definitely has groomed Snoop and Em from early on but I can't give him that much credit for 50 or Kendrick.

And people don't want to mention Game but Game is actually a fully groomed Dre artist and Dre used 50s success to ride off of with Game.

But he was the West Coast golden boy when he came out.

Look at Xzibit. A dope MC with a following and then he gets the Dre co-sign and produced single and goes platinum.

The only difference is the machine that Dre has.

50 didnt pop off until in the club, period.

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

50 was everywhere on the east coast with the mix tape game.

This is how it works, artists gains a following and then the label takes them to a larger market.

Which is exactly what my point is; 50 was a homerun for Em and Dre.

His following was so large, all they had to do is put out one hit, which they undeniable did.

Not to mention, Wanksta was a hit before Dre.

But to give Dre credit for bringing in 50 in my opinion is disrespectful to Em and 50.

Puff the first exec turn artist formula that everyone follows now.

I mean of course he was "out" before....but so was Em and 50.

Nm

but no one has us has done it...you act like DRe was the only big producer in music.

HOw come JD, Timbaland, Neptunes, Primo, or all these other producers haven't had the sucess DRe has....Dre has reinvented himself and been able to see what's new coming before anyone us.

he brought out Doc form TExas...he brought out snoop and em after leaving Eazy and his home folks didn't think he could do it...left them fell off..then brought out Em and got back hot again...then found 50 and Game.

Now when everyone was done with him and Detox he found Kendrick and brought him out to the masses..but anyone can do that huh come on

>but no one has us has done it...you act like DRe was the only
>big producer in music.
>
>HOw come JD, Timbaland, Neptunes, Primo, or all these other
>producers haven't had the sucess DRe has....Dre has reinvented
>himself and been able to see what's new coming before anyone
>us.
>

They actually tried to bring people out of nowhere like Bubba Sparxx. Dre found people already there and just needed one more boost. What don't you get abou this man? Fuck, people are slow around here.

>he brought out Doc form TExas...he brought out snoop and em
>after leaving Eazy and his home folks didn't think he could do
>it...left them fell off..then brought out Em and got back hot
>again...then found 50 and Game.
>

Em found 50 and he found 50 because 50 was everywhere in NYC.

>Now when everyone was done with him and Detox he found
>Kendrick and brought him out to the masses..but anyone can do
>that huh come on

He did not find Kendrick. We all knew about Kendrick before the Dre co-sign, did we not?

one more thing?

WE knew about Em 2 but Dre put his backing on him 2...

In todays age The internet is going to know about someone before hand that's just the way things work with you able to record easy and get your mixtape on blogs and datpiff and shit like that

But you still have to put your time in effort into someone you think can be someting special and dre did that with kendrick. ITs alot of folks who didn't know Kendrick and got put on him through Dre.

to be the artist on this list that Dre has had the smallest hand in helping out everyone mentioned (D.O.C., Snoop, Em, even 50).

But in fairness I would also say that not that many people knew Kendrick Lamar around 2009 when Dre first linked up with him or even 2010 when he dropped 'Look Out For Detox'.

The Dre/Aftermath association I'm sure was a factor in his 2011 XXL Freshmen inclusion too.

His buzz really built around 'Overly Dedicated' then lead into 'Section 80' which takes us into now where he's likely to blow off his first major release with this brilliant album.

He's been grinding since 2002/2003 but his momentum to most of the public at large is somewhere around two to three years so you can draw your own conclusions from there.

Kendrick was always gonna be Kendrick on the artistic front & Dre really doesn't seem musically inspired himself right now but the association is definitely benefitting both of them.

But don't you think Dre could've done the same with any of these semi hot artists?

Curren$y, Wiz, Krit, Drake when he first came out?

Don't you think a Dre co-sign would automatically push these cats to the next level?

I agree that he bring people out, but why is it that everyone he decides to go hard on works?

You don't believe there is any truth to the machine having a huge hand in it?

Out of everyone in hip-hop, white execs love Dre the most. They will push anything he wants.

>But don't you think Dre could've done the same with any of
>these semi hot artists?
>
>Curren$y, Wiz, Krit, Drake when he first came out?
>
>Don't you think a Dre co-sign would automatically push these
>cats to the next level?
>
Krit was never gonna be big, Curren$y was already out via No Limit & Young Money but he is what he is-a weed rapper who makes mood music, Drake would have probably succeeded with any major co-sign but culturally was a much more natural fit with that Wayne/Nicki camp.

>I agree that he bring people out, but why is it that everyone
>he decides to go hard on works?
>
because he's pretty good at recognizing the ones that do even after he links up with them, which is why unlike Hitman or Last Emporer or Bishop Lamont......Kendrick's album actually dropped today.

>You don't believe there is any truth to the machine having a
>huge hand in it?
>
You do understand that Dre wasn't always part of 'the machine' as you call it, right?

That he's now had major success on three different record labels & part of the reason he still gets people's attention is due to his twenty-five-year track record becoming self-perpetuating prophecy at this point?

The only point I was trying to clarify is the contention that folks knew Kendrick Lamar before Dre when the reality is he was barely known by pretty much anyone in 2009 (including myself, back then his name sounded like an r&b singer to me so I pretty much overlooked it when I heard the firsLA folks mention him) even on this board besides maybe R-Tistic & a couple others.

And no I'm not going to credit Kendrick's (hopefully) major success to just Dre's love from white record exectutives, I'm going to credit it mostly to his talent which is the reason he'll be here for twenty years.

>And no I'm not going to credit Kendrick's (hopefully) major
>success to just Dre's love from white record exectutives, I'm
>going to credit it mostly to his talent which is the reason
>he'll be here for twenty years.

I agree that the guy is talented but mainstream success is largely due to what is pushed by the industry period.

And that goes for all genres. If the masses like it, they push it regardless of the talent.

he is better rapper than all them people you name and only Krit I'll say equal him in song making and even Krit wasn't able to do with his major label release what Kendrick was able to accomplish...and I"m the biggest Krit supporter here.

IT says something in seeing someone who can make that leap to even working within the reins of a major and making something like this.

shit it says something that his best song of the year CArtoon and Ceral didn't even make the album cause of sample clearance but he still made a arguably the album of the year.

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

of strong songs since that time period.

are great albums...he is not no one album flash in the pan

Dudes bought into that shit hook line and sinker.

What does/did Rawkus have to do with anything in this post? They did some great ish, then fell off as a label, screwing many of their artists...I mean, I know you white, but it really is ok if you have adopted the thug mantra and enjoy ridin dirty...be you...lol...

you stay shuttin him down

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

Dre is a legend, but from the standpoint of production, can we all stop pretending that he, hands on, produces all of "his" music? Just sayin....oh, and yeah, V.I.C. produced this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL8m9x6j4cg

and dre's sounds better.

...nope, V.I.C.'s version is better (the MC's too)...clearly stolen or paid for by Dre...but the suburbs only had access to the Dre copy...it's all love...

gutted for that guy

Duke was a talent..would have been interesting to see what he could have done with a Dre co-sign, especially during that era...

Through both Def Jam and RUSH, he has brought more bonafide game changers to hip-hop than Dr. Dre.

Russell is an exec its his job to bring people in.

>Russell is an exec its his job to bring people in.

yeah, i figured you were implying that at first, but I wasn't sure.

i never in my mind would have thought to read so much bullshit about Dre and to an extent Snoop, and the west coast, in here.

Okay maybe you're not a fan of west coast music, shit i really can't ride "critically" for Em or 50, but deny this shit Dre has had a hand in from production, to artist development, to hype/buzz building is just fucn ahistorical. like just shut the fuck up already. this is coming from a kid/guy/man who has always been the east coast rap music lover in Los Angeles.

to deny Dre and his "acolytes" the respect they deserve is just the worst type of bias and internet trolling.

i just can't with the lesson since Kendrick dropped GKMC; it's like all logic and civil discussion has been thrown to a pack of rabid wolves. hate and hyperbole in equal measure

Marl is just as good in this area, maybe even better.

I hope that you don't view this opinion as blasphemous.

This thread is a clusterfuck of East Coast purist jerk reaction from 1998.

But Marley brought us Rakim, Kool G. Rap and Big Daddy Kane. Those 3 alone are easily top 10 in any ATG list. Not to mention that he also brought to the fray probably the greatest female battle MC in Roxanne Shante.

Just because Marley's proteges haven't done anything in a while does NOT negate his and their contribution.

>This thread is a clusterfuck of East Coast purist jerk
>reaction from 1998.

No one is dismissing Dre in what AND WHO he brought into the game, but this lack of sense of history is downright sickening. Negroes forget so fast and/or act like they never knew...I mean, damn!!

If this keeps up, Hip Hop is surely on a course to finally meet it's end.

May it R.I.P.

yes he engineered my melody. yes he and shan clowned rakim for his cool & calm delivery. But Eric B brought Ra there and put out the single. Marley was just hired to provide the studio and help out with some production techniques.

yes he was there at the start. but i don't see how he actually brought rakim into the game.

that's something to think about

>that's something to think about

niggas just disregard shit now to prove a point-OKPTL 1o1

you slippin, starting to sound like a surly snakecharmer.

STICKSTASHER

I can't really remember records that Dre has dropped that have been seriously bad (I even liked Relapse, but I felt it got hate that it shouldn't have). When those albums are usually about to turn out bad, he just doesn't drop the project.

He may have had artists that it didn't work out with, but I wouldn't call them failures.

Unless I'm forgetting a bunch of stuff, which may be the case.

because he puts them in sessions with C-level producers

>I can't really remember records that Dre has dropped that
>have been seriously bad (I even liked Relapse, but I felt it
>got hate that it shouldn't have). When those albums are
>usually about to turn out bad, he just doesn't drop the
>project.
>

that's not an excuse-if he's such a mastermind and taskmaster, he should know what to do to keep it from going far enough south that the quality drops that far


>He may have had artists that it didn't work out with, but I
>wouldn't call them failures.
>

I would definitely call it a failure when you have as many artists go through his system and become writeoffs
if you believe it's all on the artist, you're crazy


>Unless I'm forgetting a bunch of stuff, which may be the
>case.

mainly the fact that Dre won't take risks, that's the elephant in the room in regards to his status and legend
if it's not a sure thing, he won't roll with it and that's a BIG hindrance to him (especially when he can use his name and make it fly off the shelf)

>that's not an excuse-if he's such a mastermind and taskmaster,
>he should know what to do to keep it from going far enough
>south that the quality drops that far

Eh, this is the thing - Dre almost never seems comfortable with dropping anything that's indisputably under a 4/5. While you would say he doesn't take risks, others would say he's a perfectionist. It's all based on perception, I guess. Again, Dre seems like the type to drop only heaters and work behind what he trusts, instead of just dropping something that some would see as "solid" that he doesn't fuck with. He's a "my way or the highway" type of cat, it seems. Some would say it's restrictive, others would say it's quality control. But I can almost guarantee that quality dropping for you is completely different for quality dropping in his mind, you know?

>I would definitely call it a failure when you have as many
>artists go through his system and become writeoffs
>if you believe it's all on the artist, you're crazy

I'm not saying it's all on the artist, either. Some of those artists may just not have been a good fit with Dre; music is creative, so that happens. I don't think that's one person's fault; it's just not what was meant to be. ... And other artists just didn't really have the star quality that justified an entire album, but were good role players that could ably fill the spaces on albums. And that's not placing blame on the artist, either; but you don't get mad at a sixth man for not averaging 30 points a game.

>mainly the fact that Dre won't take risks, that's the elephant
>in the room in regards to his status and legend
>if it's not a sure thing, he won't roll with it and that's a
>BIG hindrance to him (especially when he can use his name and
>make it fly off the shelf)

Again, some people would see "not taking risks" as having discipline that sends other producers into dud territory.

>Eh, this is the thing - Dre almost never seems comfortable
>with dropping anything that's indisputably under a 4/5. While
>you would say he doesn't take risks, others would say he's a
>perfectionist. It's all based on perception, I guess. Again,
>Dre seems like the type to drop only heaters and work behind
>what he trusts, instead of just dropping something that some
>would see as "solid" that he doesn't fuck with. He's a "my way
>or the highway" type of cat, it seems. Some would say it's
>restrictive, others would say it's quality control. But I can
>almost guarantee that quality dropping for you is completely
>different for quality dropping in his mind, you know?
>

I'd agree but that wouldn't explain why he drops singles to radio and when nobody gives a fuck he pulls the 'it's not mixed' card


>I'm not saying it's all on the artist, either. Some of those
>artists may just not have been a good fit with Dre; music is
>creative, so that happens. I don't think that's one person's
>fault; it's just not what was meant to be. ... And other
>artists just didn't really have the star quality that
>justified an entire album, but were good role players that
>could ably fill the spaces on albums. And that's not placing
>blame on the artist, either; but you don't get mad at a sixth
>man for not averaging 30 points a game.
>

and that's fine in my opinion, and I do think quality control is something we should see more of out of everyone, but the thing is you don't sign an artist then never work with them directly, especially after you say you've giving their work your attention 1oo%


>Again, some people would see "not taking risks" as having
>discipline that sends other producers into dud territory.

his current sound is exhibit A-you get kick-snare-kick-snare pretty much every beat and some sort of bass hit and keys/synths
niggas act like everything he does is divine but get mad at Primo for scratching hooks and using piano samples and shit, it's ridiculous

Preach...

>I'd agree but that wouldn't explain why he drops singles to
>radio and when nobody gives a fuck he pulls the 'it's not
>mixed' card

Hey, he's gotta save face somehow; or at least try, lol. I won't go into detail with that. But again, when nobody gives a fuck, what should he do? Just put out what he has and get a dud, or go back to the lab and keep working until he finds something that can hit?


>and that's fine in my opinion, and I do think quality control
>is something we should see more of out of everyone, but the
>thing is you don't sign an artist then never work with them
>directly, especially after you say you've giving their work
>your attention 1oo%

Where is that information from? I mean I know he finished Statlanta with Stat Quo, I heard he had finished some work with Rakim before they just agreed it wasn't working out. I'm not sure where you get the "never work with them directly" part.

>his current sound is exhibit A-you get kick-snare-kick-snare
>pretty much every beat and some sort of bass hit and
>keys/synths
>niggas act like everything he does is divine but get mad at
>Primo for scratching hooks and using piano samples and shit,
>it's ridiculous
>

Valid point

>Hey, he's gotta save face somehow; or at least try, lol. I
>won't go into detail with that. But again, when nobody gives a
>fuck, what should he do? Just put out what he has and get a
>dud, or go back to the lab and keep working until he finds
>something that can hit?
>

the only reason he'd have to save face is if he couldn't accept people won't feel everything you do, blatantly lying won't change that shit
take it like a man and move to something else, which he seems to not be able to do


>Where is that information from? I mean I know he finished
>Statlanta with Stat Quo, I heard he had finished some work
>with Rakim before they just agreed it wasn't working out. I'm
>not sure where you get the "never work with them directly"
>part.
>

with Rakim basically everyone involved said the first thing Dre did was try to make him talk about killing people and drugs and shit, then threw him in sessions with no name producers on his roster
a guy like Rakim you don't do that to, if that's what he was gonna do he should've just exec produced his album and got people that were actually interested in adding to his legacy to help out

>with Rakim basically everyone involved said the first thing
>Dre did was try to make him talk about killing people and
>drugs and shit, then threw him in sessions with no name
>producers on his roster
>a guy like Rakim you don't do that to, if that's what he was
>gonna do he should've just exec produced his album and got
>people that were actually interested in adding to his legacy
>to help out


I know they had "Creative differences" but I never heard that Dre was trying to get him to change his overall content. Can you link something up?

after that on Ra Records
his exact words were 'Dre wanted me to bring the guns out and kill everybody, but I'm not known for that and I'm not that sort of artist'
he also later said 'Dre wanted me to kill people, while I wanted to resurrect them'

I'ma try and find this article. I can't believe Dre would be so stupid.

it was that article right after they split, can't remember which year it was

sheds some direct light on what you're looking for, good read

http://www.xxlmag.com/features/2006/03/rakim-thats-me-part-ii/

I had no idea.

To be fair it doesn't sound like Dre was asking him to completely change who he was so much as he was asking him to lean more towards "street" talk whereas Ra wanted to continue leaning more towards conscious stuff.

Either way I'm shocked Dre would let an opportunity like this slip just because he didn't want to come a few extra inches to meet Ra halfway. For shame.

but Dre didn't want to compromise and see Ra's vision, and since they're both legendary talents (and Ra is the best emcee he's ever worked with) you'd think he'd leave his pride at the door and actually listen

>and
>since they're both legendary talents (and Ra is the best emcee
>he's ever worked with) you'd think he'd leave his pride at the
>door and actually listen

We all lost out.

the artists Clive Davis brought to the game had far more impact and most importantly better music that has stood the test of time

Love him or hate him, you can't deny Dre's influence in the game without looking like you got the lemon face. It's too much proof of Dre bringing in major game changers and to deny that shows that you are not capable of being objective due to being overly biased and emotional. I can't believe these niggas are gonna act like Dre had brought out nothing but fly by night artists. Then again, some of these cats literally believe Group Home are dope lyricists, so it should be no surprise they will deny Dre his accolades regardless of proof.



Since 1976

Since 1976

Antonio McLendon
Bishop Lamont
Brooklyn
Busta Rhymes
Dion
Eve
G.A.G.E.
Game
Hayes
Hittman
King Tee
Joell Ortiz
Joe Beast
Marsha Ambrosius
Raekwon
Rakim
RBX
Slim the Mobster
Stat Quo
The Last Emperor
Truth Hurts

And this bad quality has passed to Eminem...

Obie Trice
Stat Quo
Bobby Creekwater
Cashis

and 50 Cent...

The Game
Olivia
MOP
Mobb Deep
Young Buck

I'm just saying, but damn, dude has made a living of the hype machine, and only giving us table scraps in the grand scheme of things.

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/lebron-smallest-violin.gif

but only a few get to???




*my head just exploded*

He's signed a lot of talented people, and people who never got a chance... Kendrick just got to release an album. Em was talented, Snoop too, but 50 Cent isn't near as talented as most of those people are on that list, he was just marketed correctly.

from pop stardom.

.

together...even tho Rza was the head and he had been in the game before he didn't really have a name to put a stamp on something.

>together...even tho Rza was the head and he had been in the
>game before he didn't really have a name to put a stamp on
>something.
>
>

Exactly.. which makes it all the more significant that he was able to do what he did (as an artist/producer/exec/leader/etc). It truly speaks to abilities and skills rather than his hype and name.

Hits and impact speak for themselves. The acts who were named - Snoop Dogg, Eminem, 50 Cent, The D.O.C. - hip-hop wouldn't be the same without them. Period.

Even when Dr. Dre isn't making the beats, his fingerprints are all over everything he does. Mixing/mastering, sequencing, etc. - you can always tell what a Dre product is, whether he's the one on the MPC or not. And almost always, that stamp is quality.

Anyone who needs examples, take a look at 50 Cent's career. Dr. Dre executive produced "Get Rich Or Die Tryin'" and "The Massacre," and you see how different those albums turned out compared to his other works. And Dre didn't make all of the beats on those records, either. But his impact is very clear on everything that he puts his hands on.

If you need an example of the influence on Kendrick's new album, turn it on in the car and turn on Section.80 in the car. He's helped make GKMC bumpable, and I think that's part of what can make this album successful.

Come to think of it, think of the quality of most of those artists' albums with Dre's direction, and compare it to the quality of their albums without Dre's direction. The distinction is undeniable; he understands how to extract the most out of artists he works with and help them achieve or fine tune their vision.

And is there anyone else who has had gamechangers in different eras the way he has? He's got a different leader for different eras in rap.

like it doesn't exist

Just don't know Red Alert's history like that. I may be wrong, though; maybe they are ignoring it lol

to name somebody other than Dre.

that qualifies as an artist if you ask me
besides that, I didn't bring him up in the first place-roidrasher

>that qualifies as an artist if you ask me

so, no, that doesn't qualify him as an artist and/or producer in the vein of Dre, Quik, Premier, Pete Rock & RZA unless you're just mad you can't come up with a better answer to this post.

>besides that, I didn't bring him up in the first
>place-roidrasher

Cute attempt at skating away from that one at the end, come up with a better aliteration before your next post of bitter bullshit.

he did the shit, spermswisher
you asked 'which artist brought in more game changers than Dre' not 'which artist brought in more game changers than Dre, but just because they did production and shit that doesn't count'

>

YOU lost, nuggetnose
especially when the post says 'who has brought more Game changers into hip-hop than Dr.Dre?'
you've been told of someone that has but you won't back off your opinion of what actually happened then threw silly ass qualifiers on it to not have to concede

I know The Source isn't popping like that anymore. But dude oversaw five 5-mic albums, before people were discrediting The Source at every turn. That's no slouch lol

Only people who got on Kendrick in 2012 think of him as a Dre protege. Truth is Kendrick was on the hip hop radar wayyyyyyyy more than Snoop, 50 or Em before Dre came into the picture.

The Recipe was the first song a lot of people heard from him...

shit he was getting shots thrown at him by Jigga as early as 2009.

He was the biggest mixtape artists going pre-Shady/Aftermath which basically was that era's version of the 'big on blogs' rappers like Kendrick.

And it should be noted Dre has been aligned with Kendrick in some capacity dating back to 2009 (just before he crossed over from mixtapes to actual 'album' type of work on OD & S80) he was just being slow/deliberate-ass Dre with it & Kendrick cultivated enough buzz outside of that (though surely with some Aftermath help behind the scenes getting him on stuff like the 2011 Freshmen XXL issue) that unlike Bishop Lamont or whoever he earned his way towards an actual release date.

The real difference with this is not the affiliation & promotional part but the fact that Dre (probably knowing better than anyone his 'sound' is currently in need of a reboot) has been hands-off on the actual production.

Where?

i think ghostface had a beef with 50 before 50 blew up too.

>shit he was getting shots thrown at him by Jigga as early as 2009.

That was his original quote...maybe he meant 1999?

>>shit he was getting shots thrown at him by Jigga as early as
>2009.
>
>That was his original quote...maybe he meant 1999?

"Dealing with Jigga, yo' ass is dense. I'm about a dollar, what the fuck is 50 cents?"

Some joint on Vol. 3. Forgot how the whole thing started though, probably with "How To Rob."

Ok, so Dre was "aligned to Kendrick to some capacity" since '09. Basically meaning he heard the nigga's music for the first time at that point.. But that doesn't have anything to do with Kdot growing his sound and fanbase before and after that

Somebody already mentioned him.

Truth Hurts
Xzibit
Knocturn al

Not worth the effort if someone's that thick.

a) He had tons of credibility among the lyrical
crowd. He was one of the rappers that NY niggas
fucked with at all from the west

b) He could rap

c) Was very charismatic

Dre literally did nothing for his career



----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

>
>a) He had tons of credibility among the lyrical
>crowd. He was one of the rappers that NY niggas
>fucked with at all from the west
>
>b) He could rap
>
>c) Was very charismatic
>
>Dre literally did nothing for his career

Got him a platinum plaque and put him on the Up In Smoke Tour.

Dre?

Restless was platinum...that's not elevation?? Man vs. Machine was Gold, which is still higher than his previous albums.

these niggaz in here done lost they damn mind

RZA presents a good challenge, if we go artist for artist, album for album, you might say he's better.

Meth, Ghost, Rae, Dirty, GZA

Snoop, Em, Kendrick

Dre's artist certainly have had a greater impact. I'm not sure if Dre gets credit for Eazy, they both kind of came up together.

Jay brought Kanye, Beans, Free...RiRi?

Ye hasn't done much outside of signing established artists.

There's not a whole lot of comp for Dre, but I'd say RZA comes damn close.

>RZA presents a good challenge, if we go artist for artist,
>album for album, you might say he's better.
>
>Meth, Ghost, Rae, Dirty, GZA
>
>Snoop, Em, Kendrick
>
>Dre's artist certainly have had a greater impact. I'm not sure
>if Dre gets credit for Eazy, they both kind of came up
>together.

...i mean, even if you wanna give dre #2, eminem, snoop & 50 are REALLY corny rappers ..but he did say "who brought more change changers" so lol

and who is his complete list?

...so i wouldnt discount that so easily

Oh I see, this is the thread where all the punk ass niggas come and hate on the west coast and our artists...

nobody's saying he didn't do the shit in a big way, just that others did more in regards to number of artists

Humpty and Pac >>>>>> Dre Snoop Em

Did Weezy introduce Drake to the mainstream?

No.

He won a bidding war over Drake.


Did Dre introduce 50 to the mainstream?

No.

Aftermath/Shady records won a bidding war over
50.

This post is just proof that Kendrick Lamar has
completely ruined the Lesson's ability to reason.
Its sad.

He sure wasn't mainstream on the west coast...

quit crying about Kendrick... Find something else...


We get it, you don't like the album like other people here do...

People are excited about this artist and this project... let them be excited...

But not "mainstream" in Lousiana pre-Weezy

Drake did have multiple mega offers from majors
BEFORE signing with Weezy.

Weezy won that bid.

Same with 50 Cent.

50 Cent had multi-million dollar deals from multiple
labels. Aftermath/Shady just happened to win that bid.

Neither 50 nor Drake were "introduced to the mainstream"
by Dre or Weezy. Both certainly benefited from Dre and
Weezy.....just as Dre and Weezy were helped by 50 and
Drake.

Dre had fallen on irrelevant status at the time
50 was signed...young niggas at that time didn't
really care...not to mention 50 re-established
Dre has a figure on the east coast for the first
time since before 2Pac and Biggie died


>He sure wasn't mainstream on the west coast...


>We get it, you don't like the album like other people here
>do...

I do like the album, actually.

>People are excited about this artist and this project... let
>them be excited...

That has nothing to do with it. You guys are just making
shit up and have pretty much silenced all original thinkers
on the topic. Either Kendrick Lamar prevented deaths from
Sandy or you are banished from The Lesson. Its pathetic.



----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Question:Is it possible to disagree with the opinion stated in the very first post *without* hating on Dre/the West/being stupid/etc.?

If the answer is "no" (and it seems to be after reading through this), WTF's the point? 200 co-signs? It sure ain't "indepth music discussion"...