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Forum nameThe Lesson
Topic subjectAnybody Who Doesn't Understand Dirty Was A Great MC Can Eat A Dick
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2500873
2500873, Anybody Who Doesn't Understand Dirty Was A Great MC Can Eat A Dick
Posted by Bombastic, Sat Feb-05-11 10:23 AM
A lotta y'all got it fucked up with all the craziness but there's a reason the Wu never recovered from his descent into addiction, imprisonment, & eventually death.

You think Russell Jones was just up there fuckin' around & doing dumb shit?

But yet he was the focal point onstage for the greatest collective of MCs in rap history?

And any album he actually put his name on & owned during his life happened to be on point?

C'mon baby baby c'mon baby baby C'MOOOON.

Dude was an essential ingredient & there truly was no father to his style.

Watch the way he carries this Wu show in '97 in Amsterdam (well, he and Meth, who is a true beast onstage even if his albums have not measured up to that).

I don't know where GZA, Deck, Ghost, or Rae were for this one.

But then again it was the Wu.........in Amsterdam.

Yet somehow the Dirt Dog rocked this club in coherence.

You can start here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCuGqaTIpQ4&feature=related

But that's the 3rd out of 5 from some Dutch live special they were doing on the Wu at the time (whut up, Nic!).

But really, the whole show is worth watching:
1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H783_6WbWH0&feature=related
2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBYZTqTAzZ0&feature=related
3) (above)
4) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01h5ldc4vOA&feature=related
5) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9S2X_5ChpQ&feature=related

I miss this dude.


2500874, yeah, he was great.
Posted by Guinness, Sat Feb-05-11 10:26 AM
but people who hate on waka or lil b need to be shown for hypocrites for liking a rapper who got over on his energy and personality and didn't even write his own lyrics.
2500879, I'm going to disagree on this post-jack part:
Posted by mrhood75, Sat Feb-05-11 10:34 AM
>but people who hate on waka or lil b need to be shown for
>hypocrites for liking a rapper who got over on his energy and
>personality and didn't even write his own lyrics.

It's not what you do, but how you do it. Yeah, Dirty got over on his energy and personality, but he did it a Hell of a lot better than Waka and Lil' B.
2500880, not saying he wasn't better.
Posted by Guinness, Sat Feb-05-11 10:39 AM
just pointing out that hypocrites are willing to make exceptions for east coast rappers from the 90s while whining about contemporary acts with similar roles.
2500943, RE: not saying he wasn't better.
Posted by peebo, Sat Feb-05-11 01:36 PM
but their music sucks. and his didn't.
2501087, wrong.
Posted by Guinness, Sat Feb-05-11 07:42 PM
2501194, RE: wrong.
Posted by peebo, Sun Feb-06-11 01:29 AM
how can it be wrong? it's my opinion, based on my personal taste in music.
2501246, do you guys EVER get this stick out of your ass?
Posted by philpot, Sun Feb-06-11 08:59 AM
i mean how many time can you little girls whine like bitches about "east coast bias" and all that shit

grow the fuck up you crying baby
2501257, lulz @ this fuckboy.
Posted by Guinness, Sun Feb-06-11 09:25 AM
2501494, I think the argument is not so much 'east coast' bias
Posted by Dr Claw, Sun Feb-06-11 09:57 PM
but "era" bias. Like, the only reason we would like Ol' Dirty is because he came out (and was a success) in the '90s, the last age where you could be popular without being ever conventional. The whole "East Coast bias" thing is a part of it, but not all of it. It's rubbish anyway.

if Kaka Flocka Flame was from NYC... or rather, if he remained in NYC, and came out as a rapper under say, 50 Cent's wing, he'd still be rather flat in his attempt to be the new age "M.O.P."-type rapper. If he was from LA, and did the same, we'd be looking at him like "WTF".

and well, Lil B... dude is just weird. I don't expect cats that have been listening to rap forever to like dude.
2500973, RE: I'm going to disagree on this post-jack part:
Posted by lakai336, Sat Feb-05-11 03:17 PM
>It's not what you do, but how you do it. Yeah, Dirty got over
>on his energy and personality, but he did it a Hell of a lot
>better than Waka and Lil' B.

Not really....he just gets a pass for doing it in the midst of a purist approved, legendary rap group as opposed to some youtube self-promotion or Gucci Mane affiliation.

I'm a fan of all 3, and I don't deny ODB is the originator, but I think he has a point on the hypocrisy.
2501046, Waka and Lil B ain't SHIT compared to Dirty nigga and I rep south
Posted by Ashley Ayers, Sat Feb-05-11 06:54 PM
Dirty had an energy and charisma that them niggas will never even
GLIMPSE in their lifetime. Dirty had a STYLE all his own. Them cats
don't even had definitive styles. They just saying shit on records.
Yeah they exploit retardation but retardation is not their creation lol.
That shit ain't nothing new what they doing. They just running with
retardation. Fuck outta here calling someone a hypocrite for seeing
the sheer STAR POWER of OBD and shitting on those two other niggas.
2501078, gotcha.
Posted by Guinness, Sat Feb-05-11 07:27 PM
if lil b had invented a genre of music, invented a glossary of slang, invented an entire method of dancing, and invented his own style of internet marketing...only THEN we could say he had a "definitive style."
2501191, All that and he still lacks what ODB had.
Posted by Ashley Ayers, Sun Feb-06-11 01:11 AM
The nigga has done some innovative shit. I'm not denying that.
That's all you pointed out here though. The style and charisma is not
seeing OBD on any level. I'll engage though.

>invented a genre of music,

Ask yourself what this "genre of "entails. Based music is the art of
not thinking about what you're saying if you want to even call that an
art. This is by his own admission. This is not a style. This is
pure laziness."
There's a reason people can recite the ENTIRE Brooklyn Zoo song.
Charisma and style bruh. Unique delivery. Lil B lacks it. Don't
get me wrong I was actually riding for this cat at one point but he
ain't seeing OBD.

>invented a glossary of slang

Inventing a glossary is language bruh. Urban dicionary>>> OBD?
Furthermore he doesn't deliver this slang in any unique way. I'm
cookin'. I say the shit the same way he does. Nothing special about
it. It's not like Snoop coming in the came with "Fo shizzle my
nizzle". That was style. Hell Trey Songz saying Yuuuup has more style
than Lil B and his "glossary of slang"

>invented an entire method of dancing,

I can't listen to his dancing. We talkin bout music. But I will give
you that as part of his style though. That's all he really truly has
in the way of style and it isn't even concerning his actual music.

>invented his own style of internet marketing

Oh right that makes him a musical genius! Jimmy Iovine is killin all
these niggas! I can't listen to his marketing either. We talkin
about style here my nigga.

2515027, RE: yeah, he was great.
Posted by Mash_Comp, Tue Feb-22-11 12:35 PM
>and didn't even write his own lyrics.

he didn't write SOME of his own lyrics.

But yeah.
2500878, First time I saw the Wu, it was in Philly, and he completely held them down
Posted by mrhood75, Sat Feb-05-11 10:31 AM
on stage. And this was after HOURS of mostly bullshit opening acts (I don't think I'd be exaggerating if I said there were 11 of them, and only two or three were any good), so the crowd was fed up and ready to go. But him (and a little of Method Man) kept the crowd in the game, and satisfied, even though they only got to do six songs.

So yeah, props to dude. He was ill as fuck on the stage and on the mic.
2500881, Damn, Bomb...
Posted by Dstl1, Sat Feb-05-11 10:40 AM
fuck you do get drunk and start reminiscing over Dirty again? Lol. Remember this, my dude?
http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2489490&mesg_id=2489490&listing_type=search
2501615, again & again & again & AGAIN(c)caller on 36 Chambers
Posted by Bombastic, Mon Feb-07-11 09:03 AM
>fuck you do get drunk and start reminiscing over Dirty again?
> Lol. Remember this, my dude?
>http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2489490&mesg_id=2489490&listing_type=search
2500886, i liked dirty
Posted by loki2stunt, Sat Feb-05-11 11:05 AM
but u taking it too far. The greatest collective of MC's in history, lol, u can suck a fat baby's dick.
2500901, ^^^ has dilated peoples avatar.
Posted by Guinness, Sat Feb-05-11 11:57 AM
you're probably not an expert on legendary collectives.
2500909, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv_d4fWZpB4
Posted by Dstl1, Sat Feb-05-11 12:14 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv_d4fWZpB4
2501278, lol
Posted by JayEmm, Sun Feb-06-11 10:55 AM

2500904, If not the Wu then who? It's either them or Juice Crew
Posted by micMajestic, Sat Feb-05-11 12:05 PM
>but u taking it too far. The greatest collective of MC's in
>history, lol, u can suck a fat baby's dick.

And Juice Crew didn't really rock with each other like that.
2501610, oh you got a better one you wanna name for us, Iriscience?
Posted by Bombastic, Mon Feb-07-11 08:47 AM
>but u taking it too far. The greatest collective of MC's in
>history, lol, u can suck a fat baby's dick.
2502002, depends on your criteria
Posted by javi222, Mon Feb-07-11 10:16 PM
talent wise, Freestyle Fellowship/Project Blowed crew are much better... pretty much can't think of any crew of MCs seeing them...

Wu Tang still amazing though.. so its not far fetched to consider them the best...



2715648, HAHAHAHA....this fool said Freestyle Fellowship/Project Blowed
Posted by JohnnyKilroy, Mon Jul-02-12 08:07 AM
i'm done.
2715729, http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m69opped061qa9yvvo1_500.gif
Posted by Bombastic, Mon Jul-02-12 12:56 PM
>talent wise, Freestyle Fellowship/Project Blowed crew are
>much better... pretty much can't think of any crew of MCs
>seeing them...
>
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m69opped061qa9yvvo1_500.gif
2500914, dude was and Wu was cool, but you straight trippin
Posted by mistermaxxx08, Sat Feb-05-11 12:38 PM
those cats came out tight and then what?

more hype than overall substance.they had a moment in time and to me they matter but they ain't seeing some groups and alot of that is that they choked. 93-97 they were on the pulse and there after they haven't nearly been half that interesting imo and though they have had moments solo, they didn't even half of that "IT" they had out imo.

a would've,could've,should've act if there ever was one
2500931, RE: dude was and Wu was cool, but you straight trippin
Posted by dalecooper, Sat Feb-05-11 01:08 PM

>a would've,could've,should've act if there ever was one

Enter the 36, Wu-Tang Forever, Return to the 36, Liquid Swords, Ironman, Tical, Cuban Linx, Supreme Clientele, Fishscale, and a handful of others would like to have a word with you. I'll be patiently waiting for you to name any group in rap that put out THAT many classics or near-classics.
2500934, yeah...that was pretty extra...
Posted by Dstl1, Sat Feb-05-11 01:13 PM
dude acted like they dropped "36 Chambers" and then disappeared like Junior Mafia or some shit.
2500935, Boo & Gotti
Posted by micMajestic, Sat Feb-05-11 01:13 PM
*snickers*
2501064, All that proves is that RZA, Dirty and Ghost are great
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Sat Feb-05-11 07:09 PM
The rest of them niggas, not so much
2501103, And that has what to do with the conversation?
Posted by dalecooper, Sat Feb-05-11 08:47 PM
I guess we can keep moving the goalposts all day long, but I thought we were supposed to be talking about Wu's strength as a collective. They're stronger than their weakest links, contrary to the old saying, and always have been.
2501113, the Wu have two classic albums as a collective
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Sat Feb-05-11 09:10 PM
i can name several groups with two or more classics. PE, De La, Gang Starr, Tribe, OutKast, etc...
2501166, i think collective and group are different.
Posted by Guinness, Sat Feb-05-11 11:59 PM
wu-tang wasn't a group in the same way tribe was. they were more like boot camp or dungeon fam or cash money.
2501261, so do we count Enta Da Stage, Dah Shinin & Nocturnal as classics
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Sun Feb-06-11 09:44 AM
for the Boot Camp Clik or for the individual groups that made the albums?
2501312, Why not both?
Posted by Zarathuckya, Sun Feb-06-11 01:14 PM
Enta Da Stage is a classic album by Black Moon from the Boot Camp Click.
2501318, RE: Why not both?
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Sun Feb-06-11 01:39 PM
because the albums weren't done under the Boot Camp tag. it was done by the groups (Black Moon, Smif-N-Wessun & Heltah Skeltah). OKP makes their own rules so do what you must to make the Wu greater than they are. Lump all of the solos in as Wu albums
2501476, RE: Why not both?
Posted by Zarathuckya, Sun Feb-06-11 09:22 PM
>OKP makes their own rules so do what you must to
>make the Wu greater than they are.

Wu-Tang forever

>Lump all of the solos in as
>Wu albums

No but I'll lump them in as albums by memberS (emphasis on the S) of the Wu Tang Clan which while featuring one MC prominently still had other Wu Tang members all the hell over it.

You've got your boxes you're trying wrap around them but the way they did it doesn't quite match your boxes.

>because the albums weren't done under the Boot Camp tag. it
>was done by the groups (Black Moon, Smif-N-Wessun & Heltah
>Skeltah).

All those Wu albums had the Wu logo all over it, see my avatar for instance

2501832, RE: Why not both?
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Mon Feb-07-11 03:05 PM
>>OKP makes their own rules so do what you must to
>>make the Wu greater than they are.
>
>Wu-Tang forever

all good things come to an end

>
>>Lump all of the solos in as
>>Wu albums
>
>No but I'll lump them in as albums by memberS (emphasis on the
>S) of the Wu Tang Clan which while featuring one MC
>prominently still had other Wu Tang members all the hell over
>it.

so now we're admitting that the "featured mc" couldn't hold said album down for dolo, right?

>
>You've got your boxes you're trying wrap around them but the
>way they did it doesn't quite match your boxes.

so the Wu get a special set of rules huh?

>
>>because the albums weren't done under the Boot Camp tag. it
>>was done by the groups (Black Moon, Smif-N-Wessun & Heltah
>>Skeltah).
>
>All those Wu albums had the Wu logo all over it, see my avatar
>for instance

it's either a solo album or a Wu album. can't be both
2501858, RE: Why not both?
Posted by Zarathuckya, Mon Feb-07-11 03:50 PM
>>>OKP makes their own rules so do what you must to
>>>make the Wu greater than they are.
>>
>>Wu-Tang forever
>
>all good things come to an end

Everything you have seen has always been and always will what be. With regard to whom or what, its got to be.



>>You've got your boxes you're trying wrap around them but the
>>way they did it doesn't quite match your boxes.
>
>so the Wu get a special set of rules huh?

What's your fixation on rules are you the govt?


>>
>>>because the albums weren't done under the Boot Camp tag. it
>>>was done by the groups (Black Moon, Smif-N-Wessun & Heltah
>>>Skeltah).
>>
>>All those Wu albums had the Wu logo all over it, see my
>avatar
>>for instance
>
>it's either a solo album or a Wu album. can't be both

Well actually it can be both. That's a false dichotomy. Politicians use this kind of mindtrick a lot, look it up in your Funk and Wagnals
2501692, The Wu solos are different from the ones put out by anybody else
Posted by dalecooper, Mon Feb-07-11 11:03 AM
And here I mean the early ones of course. They're different because they were produced (entirely or largely) by RZA, and most if not all of the guests were other Wu members. They felt like a product of the same group, even though they had one MC's name on the cover. The early Wu solos are basically extensions of the Clan catalog to me. Later stuff like "Nigga Please," most of Meth's post-"Tical" shit, etc. don't count the same way - they are more conventional solo releases with fewer Wu cameos, less or no RZA production, a deliberately different and more eclectic aesthetic, and so on.
2501715, I'm not sure why people still try to debate that,the pre-Forever solos
Posted by Bombastic, Mon Feb-07-11 11:45 AM
>And here I mean the early ones of course. They're different
>because they were produced (entirely or largely) by RZA, and
>most if not all of the guests were other Wu members. They
>felt like a product of the same group, even though they had
>one MC's name on the cover. The early Wu solos are basically
>extensions of the Clan catalog to me. Later stuff like "Nigga
>Please," most of Meth's post-"Tical" shit, etc. don't count
>the same way - they are more conventional solo releases with
>fewer Wu cameos, less or no RZA production, a deliberately
>different and more eclectic aesthetic, and so on.

are Wu albums with one MC being featured, produced by The RZA (I think there might be five tracks over the course of all five of them total not done by him & they're done by one of his understudies like True Master or 4th Disciple), which was kind of a byproduct of having a collective of that size.

They're basically just different serial films done by the same director with the same ensemble cast.

I mean in talking about Liquid Swords RZA laughingly said 'GZA heard his album when it was done'.

Cuban Linx featured Ghost as a co-star with every other Wu MC at least appearing once, most more then once & even had songs on it Rae didn't appear on.

After the double-album the next phase came in letting each member "spread their wings" & the next wave was the result (for better or in many cases for worse) of that.
2501725, I don't know why it's debated either, maybe because
Posted by dalecooper, Mon Feb-07-11 12:08 PM
it's just not that commonly done. But I've always regarded all of those as being Wu-Tang albums.
2501834, RE: The Wu solos are different from the ones put out by anybody else
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Mon Feb-07-11 03:08 PM
>And here I mean the early ones of course. They're different
>because they were produced (entirely or largely) by RZA, and
>most if not all of the guests were other Wu members. They
>felt like a product of the same group, even though they had
>one MC's name on the cover. The early Wu solos are basically
>extensions of the Clan catalog to me. Later stuff like "Nigga
>Please," most of Meth's post-"Tical" shit, etc. don't count
>the same way - they are more conventional solo releases with
>fewer Wu cameos, less or no RZA production, a deliberately
>different and more eclectic aesthetic, and so on.

so can we agree that for the most part, the Wu members aren't able to carry a solo LP?
2501847, re: stuff
Posted by dalecooper, Mon Feb-07-11 03:27 PM

>so can we agree that for the most part, the Wu members aren't
>able to carry a solo LP?

Yes - but so what? Where have we gotten or where are we going, relative to where we started?
2501139, There's a couple hip-hop classics amongst "the rest of them niggas"
Posted by micMajestic, Sat Feb-05-11 10:26 PM
>The rest of them niggas, not so much

and a bunch of dope albums so miss me with all of that.
2501322, RE: There's a couple hip-hop classics amongst "the rest of them niggas"
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Sun Feb-06-11 01:47 PM
RZA's production is what made the Wu what they were. When his sound died out, so did the Wu. 93-97 was great because of RZA. Ghost and Dirty are the only ones to release high caliber material post 97.

>>The rest of them niggas, not so much
>
>and a bunch of dope albums so miss me with all of that.

dope from 93-97, right? if so i agree. post 97, you can miss me with that
2501168, thank you they weren't that deep as being portrayed here
Posted by mistermaxxx08, Sun Feb-06-11 12:02 AM
a couple of important albums for there time and a 2-3 legit talents there that actually somewhat counted and even then they still come up short.

Wu ain't that deep.
2501169, that all that at all, they had some moments
Posted by mistermaxxx08, Sun Feb-06-11 12:04 AM
but they ain't seen like that and depending on the side of the country you are in that speaks directly to that. some parts of the country they are bigger and in some others they ain't seeing Bones thugs and Harmony so miss me with the Generalizing sweep ain't got it like that.

you talking like they had a NWA break off of Careers? SILENCE and Crickets 101 and big time there Partna!
2501313, Wu-Tang Clan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>R.Kelly
Posted by Zarathuckya, Sun Feb-06-11 01:17 PM
2503898, and we call that area of the country 'flyover'
Posted by Dr Claw, Fri Feb-11-11 10:35 AM
>the country you are in that speaks directly to that. some
>parts of the country they are bigger and in some others they
>ain't seeing Bones thugs and Harmony so miss me with the
>Generalizing sweep ain't got it like that.
2505339, whoever cant recognize the Wu legacy are 'flyover' rap fans to me
Posted by Bombastic, Mon Feb-14-11 03:48 PM
You don't have to love 'em like I do but if you really can't understand their importance & impact in multiple areas enough to admit they're in the conversation, well then we ain't gonna have much to talk about when it comes to the history of hip-hop music so let's just save each other the time.
2516297, my sentiments exactly.
Posted by illeffeqt, Thu Feb-24-11 01:41 PM
2501626, they've had a lot of missteps both individually & collectively
Posted by Bombastic, Mon Feb-07-11 09:15 AM
and yet still whatever head doesn't admit they're at least on the short list for all-time is getting the side-eye from me as a hip-hop fan, they also can still drop some heat nearly twenty years later (like Chamber Music or OB4CL2 from just last year) even if for a variety of reasons (including the demise of this thread's subject) it will never be the same as it was during the initial RZA-helmed "five-year plan" (which is a better run during that period than any group has ever had).
2500957, unfortunately if he were south of Virginia he'd be another Soulja Boy
Posted by kysersozey, Sat Feb-05-11 02:16 PM
i never gave his antics a pass, nor his music
2501616, oh, GOOD FOR YOU then, you fucking cornball
Posted by Bombastic, Mon Feb-07-11 09:04 AM
>i never gave his antics a pass, nor his music
2501638, lol
Posted by kysersozey, Mon Feb-07-11 09:32 AM
2500959, people who dont understand how good he was in that style
Posted by Amritsar, Sat Feb-05-11 02:24 PM
should go ahead and try a write a rap emulating it.


No rapper to my knowledge since Dirty came on, has been able to do it and nobody probably ever will.
2500983, thanks for this.
Posted by Dr Claw, Sat Feb-05-11 03:40 PM
2500988, PERIOD
Posted by astralblak, Sat Feb-05-11 03:55 PM
And not only because of style, delivery, and stage performance, but cause of his lyrics as well. Show me the evidence that he didn't wriye his rhymes and I'll let that one go, but he was fucn great IMO and Nigga Please was a good album
2501028, RE: PERIOD
Posted by melanon, Sat Feb-05-11 06:04 PM
as his addiction got worse he began being so unfocused that people had to write for him. Gza & Pharrell come to mind.


but in the early days he would sometimes do old 'All In Together Now' routines on his solo work where he'd spit a Gza verse that has already been recorded.


but he penned the majority of the rhymes that belong in the ODB canon.
2501277, yeah, because I put on Return To The 36...
Posted by Dr Claw, Sun Feb-06-11 10:53 AM
and aside from "Damage" (and where it was recycled elsewhere on the album) I couldn't imagine anyone else writing those lyrics

2500998, Cosign word for word. RIP to a true legend....
Posted by guru0509, Sat Feb-05-11 04:42 PM
_______________________________

ॐ शांति शांति शांति
2501027, LEGEND!!?
Posted by kysersozey, Sat Feb-05-11 06:01 PM
i feel like i'm in the twilight zone

lmao

this dude spit 5% jargon in one song and bitch better have my money
in another on his only solo album entitled Nigga Please... and that's
legendary?

LMMFAO... this is why I love the lesson
2501031, soooo odb's not a hip-hop legend?
Posted by al_sharp, Sat Feb-05-11 06:18 PM
okayplayer.


avy: our new album. you may just like it. listen for free online @ http://theyesyesyalls.com

http://twitter.com/shamelessplug
http://theyesyesyalls.com
2501047, so what qualifies as legendary these days?
Posted by kysersozey, Sat Feb-05-11 06:56 PM
clearly it's not body of work nor quality/quantity

at least not in this post
2501198, cause no one has ever had a legend grow after death
Posted by Duval Spit, Sun Feb-06-11 01:49 AM
>clearly it's not body of work nor quality/quantity
>
2501272, and THAT is what's being used these days... because somebody
Posted by kysersozey, Sun Feb-06-11 10:33 AM
dies, that pretty much equates to legend... I disagree. I get this post--> traditional
east coast heads who ride for anything east coast. Ain't nothing
legendary about ODB. It's an emotionally driven post about an at BEST
average rapper in a legendary Crew. What possibly makes ODB legendary?
Exactly what did HE do?



2503034, you misunderstand
Posted by Duval Spit, Wed Feb-09-11 07:15 PM
I am merely pointing out that there is more than one criteria for being a legend.

But when you're a rapper who was an integral part of one of the most popular rap groups ever, released two completely unique and widely loved albums, and served as the subject of a string of now-famous urban legends about you doing things like rescuing children from burning buildings, not to mention you're other documented antics, and THEN you die early from the very same thing people claim helped make you great in the first place,
I'd say yeah,
you're a hip-hop legend.
2501050, he was part of a legendary CREW... is U-God a legend too?
Posted by kysersozey, Sat Feb-05-11 06:59 PM
2501057, you're purposely being extra with it...
Posted by Dstl1, Sat Feb-05-11 07:06 PM
if you don't agree, that's peace, but you know U-God isn't nearly in the same class or held in the same regard as ODB. Not by fans or artists.
2501067, speak objectively on what makes ODB a legend? and if you
Posted by kysersozey, Sat Feb-05-11 07:12 PM
don't mind, give me an example of another legendary artist that you'd
mirror ODB after... in terms of quality, artistry, and influence
2501077, not gonna do all that to prove my opinion...
Posted by Dstl1, Sat Feb-05-11 07:23 PM
cuz it's just that...my opinion. Your is that he is NOT and that's cool. We can coexist in here with differing opinions, man. My response was to you equating him with U-God for effect, when you gotta know they're not even close.
2516074, RE: he was part of a legendary CREW... is U-God a legend too?
Posted by mathmagic, Thu Feb-24-11 09:12 AM
yes. yes, he is. ugod. yeah. legend
2501049, You're highly opinionated yet grossly misinformed. This is why
Posted by micMajestic, Sat Feb-05-11 06:59 PM
>i feel like i'm in the twilight zone
>
>lmao
>
>this dude spit 5% jargon in one song and bitch better have my
>money
>in another on his only solo album entitled Nigga Please... and
>that's
>legendary?
>
>LMMFAO... this is why I love the lesson

I hate the Lesson (sometimes).
2501053, The only person TRULY legends out of The Wu imo is...
Posted by kysersozey, Sat Feb-05-11 07:03 PM
Ghostface and Rza

honorable mention Raekwon--> if someone argued on behalf of Rae I
really wouldn't disagree.

the rest of them were average, including Meth
2501175, now you're just being outright silly...
Posted by al_sharp, Sun Feb-06-11 12:15 AM
>the rest of them were average, including Meth


avy: our new album. you may just like it. listen for free online @ http://theyesyesyalls.com

http://twitter.com/shamelessplug
http://theyesyesyalls.com
2501270, so now Meth is a legend too? let the record show, The Wu is
Posted by kysersozey, Sun Feb-06-11 10:25 AM
legendary as a collective unit... i don't think anybody denies that.
but if you're telling me that Meth is a legendary artist based on HIS
contribution to hip hop as a solo artist we might as well agree to disagree.
2715927, As much as I HATE to admit it...
Posted by Ketchums, Mon Jul-02-12 09:08 PM
And trust me, I fucking hate it.

Method Man is a legend. I agree w/your comments on his catalog. But he's basically the only member of rap's hall of fame without a real marquee album. He's the exception to a lot of rap rules, sadly
2715935, Meth's definitely a legend & I agree with you, tho there's likely
Posted by Bombastic, Mon Jul-02-12 09:20 PM
others in the legend club without a marquee or bona fide classic album, possibly including Pac & Eminem.

It also helps Meth's cause that he's one of the best live performers in the history of the genre and despite the album issue we discussed can still rock a crowd for the better part of a two-hour set on his own, with Red or with Wu (as I've seen him do in all those incarnations).
2717612, RE: Meth's definitely a legend & I agree with you, tho there's likely
Posted by Ketchums, Sun Jul-08-12 08:37 AM
Marshall Mathers LP and All Eyez On Me/Me Against The World weren't classics?
2717804, not really, no, this ain't that post tho n/m
Posted by Bombastic, Mon Jul-09-12 01:58 AM
>Marshall Mathers LP and All Eyez On Me/Me Against The World
>weren't classics?
2501353, If the GZA is average, I need to listen to more rap music.
Posted by third_i_vision, Sun Feb-06-11 03:11 PM
You can't be serious dude. Or did you forget him?
2501356, Gza is average... when it comes down to, can he spit? hell yeah, but
Posted by kysersozey, Sun Feb-06-11 03:20 PM
did he make great music? hail nah

I can name several great spitters who couldn't write a good song to
save their lives. There's a reason why the usual suspects(Rza, Ghost, Rae)
are always named FIRST when The Wu is in conversation--> they were
the best overall as solo artists. It progressively goes down hill
from there. This post and the contributors are looking thru rose
colored glasses AS USUAL!!
2514237, What in the hell are you talking about? Have you heard Liquid Swords?
Posted by third_i_vision, Sun Feb-20-11 08:15 PM
Fuck making a great song, he made a CLASSIC ALBUM.

I forgot all about this post, but damn.

Your taste in rap is suspect as hell.
2514247, yeah, Liquid Swords is 100% bulletproof, better album than
Posted by Bombastic, Sun Feb-20-11 08:52 PM
pretty much anyone to come out in a decade has ever made.

To me, one of the 10/20 greatest rap albums ever created.

Now RZA has a ton to do with that as the conceptualizer/producer who put together yet another classic-movie-on-wax as he did on pretty much all the pre-Forever solos (save *arguably* Tical) but let's not act like GZA didn't drop 'half short, twice strong' quotables throughout that album.

"It's a wide entrance, small exit like a funnel/so deep it's picked up on radios in tunnels'
^^^C'mon.
2514258, I LOL'ed the last time I played Liquid Swords in my car.
Posted by third_i_vision, Sun Feb-20-11 09:20 PM
I was driving to STL a few months ago to buy some records, and I decided to throw it on after a few cups of coffee.

Just the sheer perfection of THOSE lyrics over THOSE beats made me start laughing. I only do that when the rawest of the raw hits my eardrums.

It's a potent album. We played it to death in high school, so I only pull it out once every couple years these days. The last time I listened to it before the STL trip was when I was in Japan a few years ago. My brother was training with a kendo grand master and I took it in with the GZA in my headphones. Pretty sublime experience, to say the least.
2514999, lmao, sounds like some Saul Williams 'Rakim on a rocky mountaintop' shit
Posted by Bombastic, Tue Feb-22-11 11:46 AM
>It's a potent album. We played it to death in high school, so
>I only pull it out once every couple years these days. The
>last time I listened to it before the STL trip was when I was
>in Japan a few years ago. My brother was training with a
>kendo grand master and I took it in with the GZA in my
>headphones. Pretty sublime experience, to say the least.

That's phenomenal.
2501055, now am I "highly" opinionated bcuz I disagree ?
Posted by kysersozey, Sat Feb-05-11 07:05 PM
legend gets thrown around The Lesson like rice in a wedding to be
honest, and the majority of the time it's built on emotions
2501132, Nah you right. ODB's comparable to Soulja Boy and his one solo LP
Posted by micMajestic, Sat Feb-05-11 10:20 PM
>legend gets thrown around The Lesson like rice in a wedding
>to be
>honest, and the majority of the time it's built on emotions

wasn't all that. You win.
2501107, Remember This ODB Rant About The Industry? (Tubeyou Lank)
Posted by Dj Joey Joe, Sat Feb-05-11 08:59 PM
This was off the WEA rap compilation titled "Illystyle Live" where they recorded a showcase of their rap line up at the time performing new songs (had Pete Rock as the dj that night too) and the last performance was by Ol' Dirty Bastard & his Brooklyn Zoo crew (great entertaining show).

Anyway, I like how he brokedown how labels wasn't use to his style of song structures & compositions and what vision he had for his own album (if you saw him live he usually goes on some type of rant at almost every show, sometimes you wondered if he was drunk or just not-right-in-the-head but most of the time he made sense).

Here's the lank, peep what he's saying at 1:22 to 3:33 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7cMNBRUutI also the rest of his performance is so funny but dope as hell.


2501126, Wu Tang A.I.D.S. Live
Posted by Organ, Sat Feb-05-11 09:58 PM
I remember when this album came out they had a bunch of people from the album perform live on an MTV Special

I remember De La Soul performing too and there were others

Anyway, Dirty isn't even on the song and you can tell he wasn't even supposed to rip that night and he just got a mic and tore it down

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qarXfMLnIp8

He is fuckin' great yo
2501162, In my opinion he really only has 2 REAL solo albums
Posted by Adwhizz, Sat Feb-05-11 11:43 PM
Return To the 36 Chambers (My favorite hip hop album of all time)
and Nigga Please (Which was also a classic to me)

I didn't like the Dirt McGirt album or the Osirus mixtape that much because it sounded like he was trying to be too much like a cookie cutter MC on those
2501614, agreeed, those two are the only albums I count, never bothered
Posted by Bombastic, Mon Feb-07-11 09:01 AM
with the stuff that came out when he was either imprisoned (technically he was locked when the second one first dropped but that one was already done & it was still Dirt's vision all the way down to the Rick James-inspired cover photo) or after he passed.

All the stuff that followed were basically cash grabs culled from cutting-room scraps.
2516304, pure garbage, they don't count.
Posted by illeffeqt, Thu Feb-24-11 01:47 PM
2501342, He has a better two solo albums than ANY Wu member.
Posted by Frank Longo, Sun Feb-06-11 02:51 PM
And that INCLUDES Raekwon and Ghostface.

*prepares to dodge tomatoes tossed by snooty Lessonheads*
2501496, RE: He has a better two solo albums than ANY Wu member.
Posted by melanon, Sun Feb-06-11 10:02 PM
nah. that Neptune/Irv Gotti platter served up on Nigga Please has aged poorly. the songs on their that stick to the more bizarre Wu stylings save it imo.
2501639, disagree, I love that albums 'Diary Of A Madman' feel & Dirt
Posted by Bombastic, Mon Feb-07-11 09:36 AM
was the one guy in the Clan that could pull off rocking over the cleaner, outside non-Wu production with his work on that album.

It's not as cohesive a statement as Return To The 36 as a result of the increasing insanity of his life by that time & because of the varying contributors on it but that album helped usher in the Neptunes and I don't think theirs or Gotti's tracks on the album are weak links.

You really consider 'Recognize', 'I Cant Wait', 'Got Your Money', 'Rollin WIth You', & 'You Dont Wanna Fuck WIth Me' to be bad songs?
2501629, Hah! N**** Please is weak. Much respect to dood but ...
Posted by PierreOrdinaire, Mon Feb-07-11 09:21 AM
... drugs KILLED him. As an aritst and MC. Got worse and worse as those chemicals set in. He deserves his props but YOUR opinion can go by the wayside. Critique a film or something, my brother ...
2717403, Nigga Please is Dope, it was just a different style of Dope
Posted by Adwhizz, Sat Jul-07-12 12:00 PM
At first people were mad that Rza wasn't at the helm and this didn't sound like a dusty Wu Classic, but The Neptunes Laced Dirty and ODB was on some Rick James Rock star shit
2501631, wow
Posted by Amritsar, Mon Feb-07-11 09:25 AM
2501634, ghost was in Wu, right? =you tripping
Posted by bshelly, Mon Feb-07-11 09:26 AM
2501718, Yeah, no.
Posted by mrhood75, Mon Feb-07-11 11:49 AM
I mean, I love Dirty and alladat. But just... no.
2501739, nigga please
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Mon Feb-07-11 12:24 PM
2501843, i agree because his solo albums were really solo
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Mon Feb-07-11 03:17 PM
he carried the albums with his personality. he didn't rely on a gang of guest spots from his brethren on each cut. i also gotta give Meth props for that as well even though i don't care for Tical too much
2514943, just stop right there.
Posted by guru0509, Tue Feb-22-11 10:33 AM

_______________________________

ॐ शांति शांति शांति
2717393, . . .
Posted by SoWhat, Sat Jul-07-12 10:07 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkKWcRZGCbY
2717619, lol what in the fuck
Posted by Amritsar, Sun Jul-08-12 09:16 AM
sometimes, your Duke shows
2501633, only a virgin and a nerd would say otherwise
Posted by bshelly, Mon Feb-07-11 09:25 AM
2503877, YOU EAT A DICK! (c)Stinkmeaner
Posted by Magnum Opus, Fri Feb-11-11 10:18 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJTOkPI08gk&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fresults%3Fsearch_query%3Dboondocks%2Byou%2Beat%2Ba%2Bdick%26aq%3Df&has_verified=1
2565023, Up just because I feel like it
Posted by Adwhizz, Sun Jun-26-11 09:37 AM
2565134, "Daddy!!! That's the logo Ish has on his onesie!!!"
Posted by DVS, Sun Jun-26-11 05:48 PM
Me: Yes, Kaia....it is. Wu-Tang! Wu-Tang!

D
2715616, This NYU '95 Radio Freestyle On 'Who Shot Ya' Brought A Smile To My Face
Posted by Bombastic, Mon Jul-02-12 05:06 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqMvz_Pagks&feature=related

I'm laughing thinking what the NYU student hosting this show musta been thinking in the presence of this kind of unbridled id in close quarters.

Six plus minutes of beautiful mess that I could have listened to for sixteen or maybe even sixty.
2715696, my mornign has been made
Posted by astralblak, Mon Jul-02-12 11:14 AM
.
2717324, THANK YOU BROTHER!
Posted by Adwhizz, Fri Jul-06-12 10:47 PM
Oh My Lord, I've got the biggest smile on my face right now.
2715636, But you know what's fucked up?
Posted by Lil Rabies, Mon Jul-02-12 07:12 AM
People like Kanye act like the soul hip hop sound was something they originated. RZA had the sound on lock between ODBs debut and Ironman. My mama and my Daddy taught me this, Roberta Flack jacking, Kool and the Gang referencing, you could never fuck with him my nigga!
2715750, And that joint from the tales from the hood sdtrk is crack!
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Mon Jul-02-12 01:53 PM
Him and 12 O'Clock ripped it!
2715796, RE: Anybody Who Doesn't Understand Dirty Was A Great MC Can Eat A Dick
Posted by Original Juice, Mon Jul-02-12 03:35 PM
Thank you.

Dirty was ripping shit up.

Not sure where all these bullshit Waka Flocka and Lil B comparisons are coming from.. really not even the same thing at all.

I wouldn't be mad if they compared him to Pac (even though that's not entirely accurate either) because not only did he have the personality/charisma/hypeness/brashness.. but he could actually rhyme and flow and rock the mic live.

He is truly in another category.. Lil B and Waka disguise/hide their lack of pure emcee skills behind the wall of hypeness/charisma they project.. Nothing against either of them as they have some cool songs and do some interesting stuff, but Dirty enhanced his skills with the charisma thing.. He was obviously bored with straight up rhyming bars and had to take it to some other place with the music. He actually made the r&b/pop songs he spit on edgier and more listenable (Mariah, SWV, Ghetto Superstar, etc.).

No East Coast/Real Hip Hop bias here either. I'm from northern Cali.

"Cuttin Headz"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpW8L2Hy0Vs
2715907, When my wife and I were married
Posted by sonofodin, Mon Jul-02-12 08:30 PM
we played shimmy shimmy ya when they introduced us as husband and wife..Dirty was the man and tho it sounds cheezy, no one could replace what he gave to music..
2715914, ha, that's perfect on multiple levels
Posted by Bombastic, Mon Jul-02-12 08:37 PM
>we played shimmy shimmy ya when they introduced us as husband
>and wife..
2715916, odb was the life of the party
Posted by Ezzsential, Mon Jul-02-12 08:39 PM
when his verse came on everyone stood up and jammed


Id rather sojourn into self till I reached the epitome of spiritual splendor
Haters fender bender beat down and ostracize the dreamer
But its more than dreams when the inner light is revealed through the cracks of faade-stephanie (me)
2717328, Dude was Ripping right here!
Posted by Adwhizz, Fri Jul-06-12 11:19 PM
http://youtu.be/OnffO4RkPZY
2717527, LOL @ this shit (again)
Posted by Jakob Hellberg, Sat Jul-07-12 08:33 PM
You are a GREAT contributor to this site Bombastic but how on god's earth is this thread NOT an example of someone turning a subjective opinion into musical critique (=what you accused me of in the Dylan-thread)?

BTW, I agree 100% with the sentiments of this post but still, show some intellectual consistency dude!!!
2717894, this post is 18 months old & written in a style befitting its subject
Posted by Bombastic, Mon Jul-09-12 11:48 AM
trying to compare it to a reply in that comparitive Dylan post is even less intellectually consistent.