>In general, this is art/entertainment and both groups, imo,
>are light in both categories.

Light on art ? C'mon dogg. You don't like them, fine. But it's objectively well understood that both were instrumental and groundbreaking for various reasons. That's not even up for debate.

Say what you want about your thoughts on the end product ... the aforementioned majority of us will aggressively disagree with you but in the end that's subjective and that's fine ... but to say they weren't artful is just stupid trolling.