It’s not really about NOT believing black women because let’s be honest, who doesn’t believe he did what he did? At least Cosby there was this disconnect between the pristine public image he cultivated for decades vs the monster he was in real life. R. Kelly? NO DOUBT!

Pre-Facebook/Youtube you had actual visible evidence to the point where it was joked about on the radio, etc. Let’s not even touch the fact that it was literally child pornography so many people were comfortable about discussing.
You had Dave Chapelle’s Pee On You going on fifteen years ago
You had Daily Beast going in on a full expose a year ago


At the time of the original trial I remember a bunch of the arguments at the time boiled down to ‘They were old enough to be having sex anyway’. A weird comparison basically too since he was popping at the time it was the same like a 20 year old dude pulling up in a Pathfinder macking on the seniors in the parking lot. Except these are kids barely outta middle school and a dude deep in his mid-thirties!

You can say that it’s about the view of women, specifically black women, as a disposable sexual commodity. But even then I don’t think it covers it all because they weren’t women, they were girls.

If you want to push that thought you can say it’s because the white world ages up black kids. Your Treyvon’s, the girl at the pool party and the girl in the classroom with the desk getting mollywopped by grown ass cops. Kids weighing 100 or so pounds but by their nature of blackness they are adult, dangerous and bad.

But then, those were basically white perpetrators, and R. Kelly is a uniquely black problem since everyone involved was of color. Kellz, the victims, etc.


So, why did we drop the ball?

>
>So, why did we drop the ball?

and was still doing songs with Lady Gaga on SNL

of the strength of his old shit.

i havent listened to an R Kelly album since Black Panties but that was a good album.

on any given night.
(in no particular order)

1. ignition remix
2. this is how we do it
3. return of the mack
4. no diggity
5. it wasnt me

honorable mention: poison, hot in herre, hot steppa

Beckys of all ages LOOOOVE Baby Got Back
even though that's what they most lack
I never got that

he disses them both in the song and in the video and they can't get enough

>At the time of the original trial I remember a bunch of the
>arguments at the time boiled down to ‘They were old enough
>to be having sex anyway’. A weird comparison basically too
>since he was popping at the time it was the same like a 20
>year old dude pulling up in a Pathfinder macking on the
>seniors in the parking lot. Except these are kids barely
>outta middle school and a dude deep in his mid-thirties!


like in the mid to early 90s and before it was REALLY common...
go back a generation or 2...and you would be shocked even more of full on relationships/marriages of those under 18 to adults

honestly...
in a weird sick twisted sorta way

RKelly kinda deaded that whole thing and made it more taboo...

I remember VIVIDLY when he married Aaliyah and nobody blinked (too hard) of an eye


and Step in the Name of Love came out

>
>like in the mid to early 90s and before it was REALLY
>common...
>go back a generation or 2...and you would be shocked even more
>of full on relationships/marriages of those under 18 to
>adults
>
>honestly...
>in a weird sick twisted sorta way
>
>RKelly kinda deaded that whole thing and made it more
>taboo...
>

It at least became a more serious conversation outside of just something we quietlu acknowledged was happening.


Although while Aaliyah was creepy as fuck, at least you could make the argument there was ‘love’ involved since I believe it was the first we heard about it. Not after he was using teenagers as urinals tho, by that time we knew kids were his thing

>It at least became a more serious conversation outside of just
>something we quietlu acknowledged was happening.
>
>
>Although while Aaliyah was creepy as fuck, at least you could
>make the argument there was ‘love’ involved since I
>believe it was the first we heard about it. Not after he was
>using teenagers as urinals tho, by that time we knew kids were
>his thing

the tape and the disgusting shit blew it over the top


but before then...in the hood... I mean unless you had that nasty/creepy old man look...nah... niggas in that age bracket were ALWAYS gaming on (what I used to misogynistic-ally call as a teenager) 'our girls'...like regularly

then again I grew up in the number one teen-pregnancy capital era
they wasn't all getting knocked up by peers

so if you mix in the fact that his primary fanbase came from that era and of that ilk...that may have factored in a lot of the 'justifications'

13,14, 15 yo girls to be "dating" 20+ year olds. and this was in like 2004.

During HS (90-94) the older dudes with the systems in their rides stayed scooping the girls at the let out
We weren't even mad at em, shit we all wanted to be em
it was just a fact of life

FFWD to the pee tape and to catch a predator
the convo shifted and they were now pedos and predators

and I never needed the pee tape or chris hanson

for me it was odd because growing up we had 12 and 13 year old girls that were cute as shit but we knew they were too young even though we were 15 at the time.

For us it was a 2 grade window. You couldn't date a girl who was a freshman if you were a senior. That was off limits. Plus our HS was only 9 thru 12 at the time so it really felt like they were too young since they were in middle school.

but once you got to 10th grade?

Back in the late 40s
my grandfather married my grandmother
he was 25 and she was 14
No one batted an eye, no one said shit
no one said he was a pedo

Today he would be a statutory rapist
I don't think she would be able to consent to marriage
even with parental permission

the girl I 'lost my innocence with' at that very age got down with our neighborhood barber and his crew.......they had their own cars and were out of highschool

the only ones I recall really frowning upon it...was me n maybe 2 of my friends....erybody else just shrugged it off as the norm

I dated a girl in VA who told me she lost her innocence to a grown ass dude when she was 12.

and it was obvious she was damaged due to it.

who exactly is the "we" you are accusing?

to your larger point, this boils down to a personal issue of whether you think what he's doing (preying on young girls) is an issue or not

*here* there were women who thought it was cool because of their experiences as girls (as young as 12-13) chose were chased by, chased AFTER, and had relationships with grown men. they brought the whole "agency" perspective of "my body my choice" and the wholel "young boys were/are immature so i pursued what interested me"

there are all kinda pathologies tied up in ALL of this

i don't think this (kelly) fits into "me too", unless its morphed, because i thought that was about workplace power abuse while kelly is more about pied-pipering

>who exactly is the "we" you are accusing?
>
>to your larger point, this boils down to a personal issue of
>whether you think what he's doing (preying on young girls) is
>an issue or not

I kept it vague because you’re always gonna have people like ‘i never fucked with kellz’ but his career barely paused even tho we all knew he was a child molester. Double albums with Jay-Z, successfully touring the nostalgia r&b circuit until the last few years.

>*here* there were women who thought it was cool because of
>their experiences as girls (as young as 12-13) chose were
>chased by, chased AFTER, and had relationships with grown men.
>they brought the whole "agency" perspective of "my body my
>choice" and the wholel "young boys were/are immature so i
>pursued what interested me"
>
>there are all kinda pathologies tied up in ALL of this
>

But thats my issue. Like i said in the OP I remember that discussion which seems insane in hindsight. Dude was clearly in his 30’s fucking 14 year olds...its not a case of a college kid dating a high schooler

>i don't think this (kelly) fits into "me too", unless its
>morphed, because i thought that was about workplace power
>abuse while kelly is more about pied-pipering

Reason I mentioned #metoo is that he’s trending under the banner after the latest allegation

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/01/arts/music/r-kelly-timesup-metoo-muterkelly.html

don't forget R Kelly got some hipster love and attention with those Trapped In The Closet videos. I vaguely remember IFC showing Trapped In The Closet back when they actually aired indie flicks. I dunno if the support was ironic or what have you, but he made some cross over dollars there.

I'm not saying black folks didn't show R Kelly love, but I don't think it's fair to assume he didn't get crossover appeal at the height of his stardom.

American pop culture as a whole gave him a wide pass after Chocolate Factory came out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me_Too_movement

https://metoomvmt.org/


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

but in the early framing..

i stand corrected though relative to the still morphing scope

still don't think R Kelly fits (that quagmire - to me - is just the sum of the foulness we let pass related to how women are seen/co-existed-with period...ALL the foul aspects of it), but it aint for me to judge

but we stayed with him through that, then through the tape, etc.

we stayed with mike tyson through the rape.

im personally guilty of all of that.

i think we all just need to admit that most of our attitudes around the treatment of girls/women was pretty shitty for a really long time.

basically all of these types of situations were portrayed and communicated through a mans lens. so we only viewed them as potential obstructions to a mans life/career.

thats why the #metoo movement is so significant imo. i honestly think its the 1st time in our history that we are collectively treating women as equally credible voices in their own experiences.

>but we stayed with him through that, then through the tape,
>etc.
>
>we stayed with mike tyson through the rape.
>
>im personally guilty of all of that.
>
>i think we all just need to admit that most of our attitudes
>around the treatment of girls/women was pretty shitty for a
>really long time.
>
>basically all of these types of situations were portrayed and
>communicated through a mans lens. so we only viewed them as
>potential obstructions to a mans life/career.

I mean imma say this knowing Maxxx posts on the boards, but its like did anyone like R. Kelly? Going back to Jay, he kicked him off the tour and apparently threatened his life over business/attitude shit.

Its nuts how much a pass we gave cause he had dope songs, lol.

He was convicted of rape but "we" stayed with him because we didn't believe he did it. I still don't. With Kellz we knew the deal and kept on "steppin".

...he somehow skated. Is it because people like his music?

I've long been team #FuckThatDude

I just saw a guy fired yesterday on some metoo. There were soo many takeaways:

1. Because dude was young good looking, folks were reluctant to see it as being that bad. When the old white guy did it a few years ago, he got zero sympathy.

2. The girl just wanted it to go away. It took an advocate for her to really appreciate what was done to here and get her fired.

3. A lot of people felt bad for the dude, even the girl. She didn't get the same sympathy.

4. I had to hear a guy say the HR woman involved wasn't objective (assuming because she was a woman I guess). I had to remind them we as men are definitely not objective to what the experience is like for a woman.

Anyway, I park this hear because I don't want to do a seperate post about it.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

i've noticed a lot of what flies at my job (and life in general) on a social tip depends on WHO does it.

prime (but minor) example the other day, my office is in a good spot at work to where i can hear damn near everything in the office area and the open area. i hear this dude go into a chick's office and the door closes. maybe 5 secs later the door opens and the guy's like "well i dont see why the door has to be open when im in here. you and bkwhat always sit in here w/ the door closed all the time."

"well yeah but it's not the same."

I've seen lame dude's get in trouble so often because they try to do something with a particular woman that he thinks another dude did with her. That is, girl was pretty open about her love life and he thought if those dudes can get at it. He could.

This case was clear cut because when he shot his shot she clearly and unequivocally shot him down and asked him to stop but he persisted like she was playing hard to get.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

That was decades he was the first voice turkeys

My sister is all about some gospel music and didn’t believe me when I told her about the tape

There's a lot of guilt to go around in letting RKelly slide all these years...

One that was entirely step songs and one that was entirely gospel.

he printed money as an artist and songwriter and a lot of higher ups overlooked his shit.
A lot of parents pretty much sold their daughters to him
And the ones who didn't cash in on the front end, he paid off so they wouldn't press charges on the back end.
All the narratives about "cultural failures" kind of miss the mark, IMO

>he printed money as an artist and songwriter and a lot of
>higher ups overlooked his shit.


how did he "print money" if no one was buying his music?

And....if someone was buying his music, who was buying it?

And even after that, he still did well with shows.

liked R.Kelly's ability to "print money"


I was asking how did R.Kelly print money without an audience paying for his music who liked his contributions to "culture"?

Edit - Black women and Maxxx.

yep

but a bit of a chicken and egg thing
dude was pretty much everywhere for a minute there
if the labels and radio execs had scruples, they would have pulled his shit...they didnt tho

the support he got from his audience of Black women?


Did his case and trial make Black women stop paying for his shows/music. reply #27

"Everything he did sold up through maybe like 2007-ish- And even after that, he still did well with shows"

I mean this is the home of 'black people aren't a monolith' so why would black women be

reply #27 EVERYTHING he did sold...even his shows.


That's his support, no matter what those who didn't support him did.


His support is his support.


What filled his pocket is what filled his pockets

but yes

>he printed money as an artist and songwriter and a lot of
>higher ups overlooked his shit.
>A lot of parents pretty much sold their daughters to him
>And the ones who didn't cash in on the front end, he paid off
>so they wouldn't press charges on the back end.
>All the narratives about "cultural failures" kind of miss the
>mark, IMO

Those are two separate entities though...

The industry that profited, his team he paid etc.. do not equal the parents who sold their daughters OR daughters who sold themselves..

Everyone is at fault if the BBC documentary is to be believed at face value...

On one side you had the people around him who didn't really check him and even though he seemed to be slick enough with it (no affection with aaliyah around crew) but they KNEW he got married

Other side is with his stature women would still be willing to go in the studio with him. They asked an up and coming singer backstage and she was like ABSOLUTELY

>Other side is with his stature women would still be willing to
>go in the studio with him. They asked an up and coming singer
>backstage and she was like ABSOLUTELY
>

it weird as shit. at first, I thought was being pc with that, but she kept going.

not long after the pee vid popped off, I asked my cousin if he'd let his preteen daughter go with kellz if the opp presented itself. She doesn't even sing. I was just curious cuz he's fan. he says yes without hesitation. I was stunned.

the power of the fame/money is strong.

When you generate hundreds of millions you don’t go to jail..

until you stop generating money

Can’t no one tell me he didn’t ghost write that Soon I’ll be 40 years old song.

for him and the industry


#23 said "higher ups" not "culture" caused that


Were Black women the "higher ups"?


Did Black women say "as longer as the 'higher ups' allow R.Kelly to make records and do shows, I guess we'll pay for that."

asserted that Black women were R.Kelly's audience.

then Black women generated money for him and his career.


What does the question of R.Kelly writing songs for himself mean?


If Black women paid for his music, then Black women supported him.


Are you saying Black women had to buy R.Kelly's music and pay to see his shows because R.Kelly couldn't pay for his music himself?



edit: if you're stating that R.Kelly's songwriting for Changing Faces and Sparkle and a song or two for Ginuwine is the main way Black women supported R.Kelly, when Teknontheou in reply #27 stated:

"EVERYTHING he did sold up through maybe like 2007-ish, And even after that, he still did well with shows."


I'm sure that statement encapsulates R.Kelly's solo career, not just songs he wrote for others like Ginuwine.

and also wrote a song for Celine Dion.

I don’t care what other folks said in other post.

The industry protects people like RKelly who have the potential to write hits and more hits for people.

I also think dude is still ghost writing for other folks but they aren’t going to put it in the credits for obvious reasons.

When you write hits, you can get away with a lot. Plus it’s the record industry and sex with underaged women ain’t really much of a concern with old ass record execs.

Backstage, underaged, adolescence...

"Black women were his audience" reply #32


I don't care if you don't want to reply to those claims, I'm going to keep upping them until you deal with them

reply #57 "sadly, his music means too much to basic black people"


that one too

just because you lock onto a post or two doesn't mean everyone else will.

good luck with that

says.


I'm not with "picking and choosing"


If it is posted, then it's up for examining.

yes

yes

main reason Kellz has been allowed to cook is because he was printing money for them. now? not so much...

he would have been cancelled back in 1995 if it took him being a pedo to be outta here

if that's how R.Kelly printed money then his audience is how he printed money - not the higher ups

meaning, he wasn't dropped by a label, or kept off radio, cuz he was a major revenue stream.
So the higher ups protected him in THAT way

and see his shows.


They paid for the music, went to the shows, etc.


If that's what they did, then that is that.

link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/style/wp/2018/05/04/feature/how-the-music-industry-overlooked-r-kellys-alleged-abuse-of-young-women/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.31392d5a9110

"As early as 1994, Kelly’s tour manager Demetrius Smith recalls warning Clive Calder, the founder of Jive Records, the first label to sign Kelly.

'I said, 'Clive, you all need to tell him that you all aren’t going to put out his records if he continues to have these incidents with these girls after the show,' ' Smith says he told Calder. “Because it was going on at every show.”

Calder, who is rarely interviewed, was reached at his home in the Cayman Islands. He said he regrets not trying harder to get help for Kelly.

'But I’m not a psychiatrist, and this guy is a troubled guy,' said the mogul, who sold Jive for $2.7 billion in 2002. 'Clearly, we missed something.'"

Maaaaaan...
Meanwhile, as per usual, who's been the scapegoat for Kellz not being in jail for the past decade, lol?

this fortress around Kellz is wild. Not just the one he built himself, but the continual Cuban B-ing by the record in the face of dudes who were like "hey, dogg... this dude is foul"

going to his shows?

would they still buy?

did that stop people from buying his music or going to his shows?

its not an either/or. It's symbiotic

didn't say "symbiotic"

"he printed money as an artist and songwriter >>>>AND<<<< a lot of higher ups overlooked his shit."

No I didn't use the exact word symbiotic. You got me.

dude got the full court press, trapping on all picks, 96 ft of defense.

smacks floor like wojo

The victim was Sparkle's niece.

Sparkle got on the stand and said it was her niece.

The victim didn't testify and that was enough to let him skate in the court.

"We" dropped the ball cause he basically got off on some bullshit, and the niggas that were gonna ride with him anyway used that as an excuse to keep supporting that fuck nigga. The rest used it as an excuse to make it OK to work with / make money with him again. Even though it's overwhelming evidence to the contrary. It snowballed from there.

Now that I think about it in retrospect, Piss on you may have helped his career because it was so popular. It added to the mythos.

"Yeah I like teenage girls. 18 or 19 only, though."

FOH

Almost like he's making light of his issues. Pretty bone chilling if he actually said that verbatim.

Here's the interview, the exact quote wasn't as bad as I remembered it. But this was *right* after the trial. Trying to equivocate any attraction to teenagers with the fact that 19 is both a teenager and legal is not something a normal human who has any semblance of shame does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsSrdcSBL9I

he said something like that there

as was stated earlier, he was a cash cow for the industry.

also, a lot (if not ALL) of these young women are broke, and impressionable.

Imagine being behind on your mortgage, finding out R. Kelly is screwing your 17 yr. old daughter......but he ALSO gave you $50,000 not to say $hit. I don't think anyone here would think twice about fucking him up/suing him but other folks might take the $$$.

Are you a victim if you don't feel like you're a victim?

to some of that money.



>as was stated earlier, he was a cash cow for the industry.
>
>also, a lot (if not ALL) of these young women are broke, and
>impressionable.



>Imagine being behind on your mortgage, finding out R. Kelly is
>screwing your 17 yr. old daughter......but he ALSO gave you
>$50,000 not to say $hit. I don't think anyone here would think
>twice about fucking him up/suing him but other folks might
>take the $$$.
>
>Are you a victim if you don't feel like you're a victim?

Victim of what? That would make the person a coward and an enabler.

>Victim of what? That would make the person a coward and an
>enabler.

^^right.

The OP did pose the question 'how is R. Kelly still cooking' more or less..


and part of the reason is that PERHAPS for monetary reasons, some of his victims are enabling him...either through fear, coercion or whatever.

no he ain't no saint and done dirt. I don't care for his Personal life and choices, Musically though He is a Musical Genius and Before bruno mars came along he was the Money man on both sides of the tracks.

His Catelog and His Ghostwork speak for itself.

folks going after him because he is older and also ain't had a hit in a minute, however in his double decade long hot streak turkeys weren't saying jack and just like Bill Cosby ain't nobody giving back the money they made off of him.

if you Mute R.Kelly than Mute Michael Jackson, Quincy Jones, Charlie wilson, Jay Z,Nas,Gerlad levert,Joe, brian Mcknight, Usher,Snoop Dogg, Bruno Mars,Toni Braxton,Dj Quik,Maxwell,Luther Vandross,etc..

they all done worked with R.Kelly

at least you acknowledge that there is cause for concern. big step.

>no he ain't no saint and done dirt. I don't care for his
>Personal life and choices

Musically I'm done with him for life and it should be about his god given talent, however i don't want that other from him or anyone else because things are bit much, however musically I will always defend his talent and I learn to seperate the two long ago.

i'm just saying...
this is a Hip Hop based message board...we guilty too.
There's a WHOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLEEEEEE lotta shit that's been put "on wax" that we could/should be lumping into this...




"Get ready....for your blessing....."

Raping and preying on underage girls is pretty much at the top of that list.

C-Murder manifested his name into existence and got life in prison

which one is better or worse?

but yeah, how many people in here screaming on Kellz still bump Big Pun?

Did a caper, and took my Guinness Stout to the head
September 1990, drunk drivin, the light turned red
Somebody hit from the rear, I hit the brakes
Then lost control of the steering wheel
Hit a black Camaro and that's all I remember that night
I woke up to a 5-0 flashlight
The car that I hit had exploded on impact
One woman escaped, but the driver was trapped, he burned to death
Manslaughter, off to C-Y-A
Liftin weights in the yard and playin spades all day
Now I'm eighteen, hit the County in the mix
"Name and last three!" Austin, oh-six-six

South Park Mexican? Something in the vein of R. Kelly.

you right.

I'm not going to stop loving your body's calling me

sorry, that shit is hot.

and folks ain't gonna stop dancing or vibing to MJ, Prince, James Brown, Miles Davis, etc...

lord knows what these white rockers used to do on tours.

and how many folks ain't rocking with George Michael? Cause that damn Father Figure is blazing hot but blatantly pedo as hell.

The same way it seems like no one cares when hood dude's shoot and kill each other, there is something similar with the sex lives of perceived fast ghetto girls.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

backstage or on the tour bus with young ass girls?

IMO it's more of a "groupies gonna groupy" thing.

How many white entertainers have stories about young girls and no one screams JAIL

hell, your boy Woody Allen, anytime he gets brought up in here folks be quick to say shit like "you don't have all the facts" but he made Manhattan or whatever trash he made.

in the end, most folks just want the art, not the artist.

In most Led Zep bios from the 80's and nobody batted an eye. Lori Maddox I believe, the well known one. Even have pics of page and her in Hollywood bars together and shit. 14 yall...14


>The same way it seems like no one cares when hood dude's
>shoot and kill each other, there is something similar with the
>sex lives of perceived fast ghetto girls.
>
>**********
>"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then
>they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
>
>"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

but want justice to the fullest with Black entertainers.

and if you don’t rock with white entertainers who do wild shit then cool, however, on here I seen folks defend Woody Allen or David Bowie.

namely, they overlooked everything after Step In The Name Of Love

now the more bullshit we find out about, it's like "well we already knew that" to the point of acceptance and complacency

if there's a silver lining it's no one is acting it didnt happen a la "Cliff Huxtable raised me"

and a whole lot of non-blacks (of all cases) that are the "tastemakers"

because dude should have been ejected @ "Trapped In The Closet"

dude had the nerve to put the sound of dripping pee pee in the beat

i mean...
i'm just saying...


"Get ready....for your blessing....."

ill never forget hearing Tom Joyner say before playing one of his songs
“did we forgive R Kelly? well, i guess we did”


no Tom, we didnt
but DJs like you refuse to stop playing his music

Not sure how those shows work but I wouldn't be surprised if he has to play what's on the list.

its a shame the black community didnt follow suit then

Because there are a lot of terrible people out there with hit records

Nobody gives a rats ass that nazi music from a Norwegian band has been removed.

I was about to "what about" the hell out of this. But they are getting some other people with hits.
But as this article points out, they are going to have to make tough judgement calls.

https://www.spin.com/2018/05/spotify-xxxtentacion-tay-k-removed-playlists/

Based on a comparison of several key playlists, it seems as though rappers XXXTentacion and Tay-K have also been marked for exclusion. XXXTentacion is accused of beating and strangling his then-pregnant girlfriend in 2016 and subsequent witness tampering; Tay-K recorded his breakout single “The Race” while on the lam over a capital murder charge. On Wednesday, before the new policy announcement, XXXTentacion’s songs “SAD!,” “$$$,” and “I don’t even speak spanish lol,” and Tay-K’s “After You,” appeared variously the on rap-centric Spotify playlists Get Turnt, Most Necessary, and the marquee Rap Caviar. By Thursday, they had all been removed. (Interestingly, “Hard,” a song that features Tay-K but does not list him as the primary performer, is still on Most Necessary as of Friday morning.)

However, not every artist with alleged violence in their past has received similar treatment. Famous Dex, YoungBoy Never Broke Again, and Chris Brown have all been accused of assaulting their girlfriends at some point, and all three still have songs on at least one of the aforementioned playlists. G-Eazy, who was recently convicted of assaulting a nightclub security guard in Sweden, appears on “Get Turnt.”

Their inclusion highlights difficulties Spotify may face when determining whose actions warrant exclusion going forward. Like any platform attempting to regulate the content it hosts and promotes, the company now assumes a role of moral arbiter, making complex decisions about acceptability that often do not have a clear answer. Does Chris Brown get a pass because he was convicted and served his probation for assaulting Rihanna? (Or because he’s the most famous person here?) Is G-Eazy acceptable because he punched a bouncer and not his girlfriend? (Or because he’s a white guy whose public image doesn’t offend the sensibilities of the people making the decisions?) Should Chuck Berry and Jerry Lee Lewis be removed from the Spotify-owned Rockabilly Mania playlist for their own well-documented dalliances with underaged girls? (They haven’t been.) Most people might agree about R. Kelly, but there’s no reliable black-and-white definition for “hateful conduct.”

Update (11:05): “You are so right that this is a complicated process with a ton of grey areas, so we’re can’t get into an artist by artist discussion,” said Spotify communications head Graham James when reached by email. “In general we work with our partners and try to make the best decisions on a case by case basis.”

So problematic

once they open that box they have to show consistency..

and why wouldn't they?

No way artist like Chris Brown, David Bowie, Led Zeppelin (no idea if they are) should be able to rock while others get pulled.

No. Just, no.

Folks are so busy wagging their fingers about what ____ has to do for "consistency" (which is hot bullshit cuz that ain't the reason, but I digress) that they're not celebrating the HUGE step that (in this case, Spotify) were the first to make. It undermines the importance and significance of *this* move.

Completely dilutes THIS very important message.

So if they don't boot EVERY predator/violent offender/woman beater this is somehow invalid?

The whatabouts are HORRID.

If all they did was just take R. Kelly off their playlists, then their motive is very clear. It wouldn't be about not promoting despicable artists. It would just be a response to a viral campaign (Mute R. Kelly).

By expanding the list of violators and being consistent, it shows that it isn't just a reactionary response to quell some temporary outrage. It would show that they actually have a real stance on this issue

It's far less important if you're most interested in holding R. Kelly accountable.

https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2018/05/10/610060176/chris-brown-rapper-young-lo-named-in-sexual-assault-suit

and have public record of your whole culture snatched out from under you....



"Get ready....for your blessing....."

this sort of thing (grown people playing "takeback") is silly and messy

if he's not getting promotion from the curated playlists we're going to have to live with that.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

proposed action...I digress.
For now....



"Get ready....for your blessing....."

The sheer grossness of clutching one's pearls over not having access (on one fucking platform, mind you) to the art of a serial predator....

Sex Planet play automatically when I click on the "Toilet Water R&B Hitz" playlist, it's literally Stalin.

So for example, if you go looking for "12 Play," you'll find it on the R. Kelly artist page and you can listen normally. But they won't include "Bump & Grind" on their 90s Throwback playlist.

I think that's how it works.

***

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/10/arts/music/rkelly-spotify-accusations-xxxtentacion.html

R. Kelly’s music will no longer be promoted by Spotify and has been removed from all official playlists and recommendation features on the streaming service, the company announced Thursday, adding its voice to the growing chorus attempting to hold the singer responsible after decades of accusations of sexual misconduct.

“We don’t censor content because of an artist’s or creator’s behavior, but we want our editorial decisions — what we choose to program — to reflect our values,” Spotify said in a statement. “When an artist or creator does something that is especially harmful or hateful, it may affect the ways we work with or support that artist or creator.”

Last week, the Time’s Up organization, which formed around the #MeToo movement to support victims of sexual abuse, joined a grass-roots #MuteRKelly campaign that has called on his record label and concert promoter, as well as local venues, radio stations and streaming services to cease its support of the platinum-selling R&B singer.

R. Kelly, who for years has faced lawsuits and news reports alleging sexual coercion and abuse of young girls and women, has denied the accusations. He is not currently facing any criminal charges and was acquitted in 2008 in a child pornography case that took six years to bring to trial. His management team has called the recent Time’s Up campaign an “attempted public lynching of a black man.”

Spotify’s announcement regarding R. Kelly’s music came as the company debuted a new policy regarding “hate content and hateful conduct.” It defines such content as any that “expressly and principally promotes, advocates, or incites hatred or violence against a group or individual based on characteristics, including, race, religion, gender identity, sex, ethnicity, nationality, sexual orientation, veteran status, or disability.”

The streaming service also noted that it has “thought long and hard about how to handle content that is not hate content itself, but is principally made by artists or other creators who have demonstrated hateful conduct personally.”

A representative for Spotify said that in addition to R. Kelly, the chart-topping rapper and singer XXXTentacion, who is facing charges in Florida that include aggravated battery of a pregnant woman and witness tampering, was also removed from playlists as of Thursday. As recently as Wednesday, XXXTentacion was featured on the popular Rap Caviar playlist.

Universal Music, which oversees XXXTentacion’s distributor, Caroline, did not immediately respond to a request for comment. R. Kelly’s label, RCA Records, a division of Sony Music, did not immediately comment either.

R. Kelly currently has one publicly scheduled tour date, on Friday in Greensboro, N.C. A representative for the venue, the Greensboro Coliseum Complex, said on Thursday that the show had not been affected by the protest effort, and tickets are still available via Ticketmaster.

Though Spotify has previously removed songs from white supremacist acts, its new policy represents a more hands-on approach to editorial decisions such as the content of playlists and the algorithmic recommendations of features like Discover Weekly. Asked last August about its policy regarding artists charged with violent crimes, Spotify said: “As a general matter, Spotify does not alter its content library based on the actions of the individuals behind the content. We hope that Spotify’s users will use their own discretion to determine exactly what music they listen to.”

Now, Spotify said the decision to no longer promote an artist would be made on a case-by-case basis by an internal committee led by Jonathan Prince, the company’s vice president of content and marketplace policy. The company said it had also partnered with advocacy groups like the Southern Poverty Law Center, Glaad and the Anti-Defamation League to help identify hateful content.

“When we look at promotion, we look at issues around hateful conduct, where you have an artist or another creator who has done something off-platform that is so particularly out of line with our values, egregious, in a way that it becomes something that we don’t want to associate ourselves with,” Mr. Prince told Billboard.

However, Spotify noted in its announcement, “It’s important to remember that cultural standards and sensitivities vary widely. That means there will always be content that is acceptable in some circumstances, but is offensive in others, and we will always look at the entire context.”

and also makes me believe they still want them spins..

they half stepped

"Get ready....for your blessing....."

You're 100% right.

and how they gonna judge him when he ain't been convicted of anything?

and he's guilty as fuck.....multiple among multiple times.

is that for a lot of people, if they went hard against him, then they would have to look at things they took part in, from whatever end, that are similarly creepy. that's what stops his fans from addressing what they know he's done, and a lot of the men at various industry levels from talking about it because then they'd get the "whatabout your boy so and so who had the teenage girl at xx time"

it's weird, because dude hasn't been any kind of hit machine for a long time, and yet people still work with him and defend him like there's money to get there.

bruno mars gets put through the spin cycle for appropriation...but now having r kelly on a remix a couple of years ago that most people didn't hear.




www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

>bruno mars gets put through the spin cycle for
>appropriation...but now having r kelly on a remix a couple of
>years ago that most people didn't hear.


it's like he's The Pied Piper of escaping the frying pan

I know HE isn’t writing hits for himself but what if he is ghostwriting for other people?

I’m sure he still writing and submitting work ideas for other people

At least at the popular level. So whatever he might be writing, there's no one putting it out.

With his level of talent, I bet he is writing some good stuff, but no one other than Beyonce and Rihanna is having any kid of sustained presence in R&B now.

I think when you make over 100 mill as a song writer/artist the industry will always have a place for you.

is there anything out there that sounds like an R Kelly joint?

Like, I don't see him ghost writing finesse
www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

He is not..

His entire style is dated at this point