what was one thing that Master P did and No limit did that other boutique labels before and after didn't? Master P and No Limit were Hot back then.

i remember stories from a few on No Limit that P looked out and everybody ate.

not saying a J Prince or others didnt though. just what ive heard about P stuck out to me for rap contracts in general

it was in their name too, no typical record label contracts with a recoup clause...

Love them or hate them, those pen&pixel album covers were everywhere; you literally couldn't turn a corner, or a page of a magazine, or the TV channel without seeing one. They were in your face with it and it worked. Chumps like Silkk the Shocker were among the best selling artists of that era.

Brilliant, non-stop marketing.

albums. I bought a few No Limit albums back in the day and each one had page or two for tracklisting plus three or four pages of upcoming releases and merch catalog.

It was obnoxious if you didn't care for their music (for example, me. I bought Snoop's 2 albums there and wanted regular CD inserts w/album info, production info, maybe a comic ... was all set with ads, tho I'm anti-capitalism so I suppose I'm an extreme case haha).

But as I keep saying - it was brilliant. Like, you buy Silkk's album, and there's a dope song with Mia X. Maybe you never heard of her before. As you're listening and loving the song, you see that Mia X's album is coming out in a month. So you wait and you buy it.

Brilliant.

I don't think they were as in your face with it though. I'd have to look back. If I recall correctly they would just put, in text, "coming soon: Lady of Rage, Tha Dogg Pound ..." (<---- that I remember from Doggystyle, I believe).

Pretty sure No Limit was actually posting the full album covers, and had like 5 or 6 pages dedicated to upcoming albums.

So you're right - they weren't the first ever to advertise pending releases like that, but they were the first to do it like they did I think.

a lot of it wasn't good to me but dude seemed to drop 5011 albums on his label every year

... I mentioned above. He didn't ALLOW you to forget that No Limit existed. Obviously there was more to it than that; there was some luck, and there had to be *some* talent correlated with making a few songs that took over the charts ... then from there it was a lot of "hey, here's another album from the same pen&pixel people that brought you 'Make 'Em Say Uhhh' !! ... and here's another one ! AND ANOTHER ONE !!!" and on and on it went. The name of the artist rarely mattered. All that mattered was that the album was being released by the tank.

Eventually it was proven to be an unsustainable business model, at least in terms of maintaining the level of success they had for those couple of years in the late 90s ... but for that brief window of time, it was brilliant and it worked.

https://media.giphy.com/media/xThuWcZzGnonnG3ayQ/giphy.gif

Most would say that's the best Pen & Pixel cover ever
but for pure artistic merit, I go with Big Bear

https://flavorwire.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/603px-big_bear_doin_thangs_album_cover.jpg?w=600&h=597

I had a poster of that cover on my wall for years

i have no idea what her voice sounds like

i have never seen a *physical* copy of that album on vinyl, tape, cd

....I think that Big Bear dude actually had lyrics. Like, the album cover reeks of the typical southern rapper of that era where you expected him to have basic lyrics but in actuality, he could spit. I think I may go on Youtube to refresh my memory.

Since 1976

Building a world (most people saw "Im Bout It" before listening to full No Limit albums), pen & pixel covers

consistency

frequency

cross promotion of artists...

No Limit never stopped

without a cosign or a push from a major label.

Master P built that business from the ground up before digital was even a thing. I can't understand why more rappers don't just form their own label (label meaning a functional business with its own infrastructure for legal, marketing, and publishing).

And, like someone else said, P was fair to his artists upfront.

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because we refuse to educate ourselves in economics

You don't give us any credit.

how many major rappers completely own their catalog and are independent?

JayZ, Chance, and Tyler come to mind but not many others.

Imagine how rich Drake would be right now if he completely owned all of his stuff. There's no reason for a rapper to sign to a label in 2018.
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>how many major rappers completely own their catalog and are
>independent?
>

Is that something that's easy to accomplish when you have to work against the system ?

>JayZ, Chance, and Tyler come to mind but not many others.
>
>Imagine how rich Drake would be right now if he completely
>owned all of his stuff. There's no reason for a rapper to
>sign to a label in 2018.
>

Would Drake have the same radio play and exposure if never signed to a label ?

Is it a lack of economics education or obstacles put in our path ?

we HAVE resources that we refuse to use
we HAVE access to the education but wont read it, wont teach it
we HAVE a network but dont trust each other

Redlining

Gentrification

Housing discrimination

Labor discrimination

i blame us for not using what we have to get around it

we will NEVER be white
the sooner we act like it the better off we will be

cant just lay down and die because “INSTITUTIONALIZED RACISM!!!”

to "educate ourselves in economics" is blaming us.


>i blame us for not using what we have to get around it
>
>we will NEVER be white
>the sooner we act like it the better off we will be
>
>cant just lay down and die because “INSTITUTIONALIZED
>RACISM!!!”


I'm not saying we have to be white.

I just don't believe tripling down on bootstrap rhetoric is the path to economic success for us.

I'm not saying we should quit or give up.

I just give us more credit when it comes economics.

motivational speech see how that works out.

Damn near everyone has either a smartphone, tablet, or a laptop. The platform to get an Ivy League level of knowledge on a given subject has been available for free for over a decade now.

There's no excuse for not establishing yourself now.

I can agree that bootstrapism is some bullshit but the bottom line is that I was able to teach myself daytrading, two languages, and video editing solely off the strength of the Internet.

In the words of Gary Vaynerchuk, "If someone can't figure out how to use Google in 2018, fuck them."


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has been in place for years.

>Damn near everyone has either a smartphone, tablet, or a
>laptop. The platform to get an Ivy League level of knowledge
>on a given subject has been available for free for over a
>decade now.
>

All of that is going to do what against entrenched racism and no access or opportunity ? That sound like baby steps at the most.


>There's no excuse for not establishing yourself now.
>

That's not enough.

>I can agree that bootstrapism is some bullshit but the bottom
>line is that I was able to teach myself daytrading, two
>languages, and video editing solely off the strength of the
>Internet.
>

You made it so everyone can ?

>In the words of Gary Vaynerchuk, "If someone can't figure out
>how to use Google in 2018, fuck them."
>
>
>

Gary is wrong and naive. It takes more than google and online courses.

because institutional racism puts us behind for sure but you can't tell me that people can't do certain things for themselves in 2018. That's simply not true. What's stopping a local rapper from doing exactly what Master P did in the 90s.

Not a damn thing.

Master P knew people in the streets and made the music they wanted to hear. He went from project to project selling his music out of the car. He could've had a deal with Interscope but decided to go for himself.

Where's the racism in that story?

When white people use the bootstrap metaphor it's BS. But let's not kid ourselves either....in 2018, you can find a way. You might not have money but you can find a way. Nothing is stopping a rapper from recording on shitty equipment with pirated software....uploading it all to Soundcloud and Youtube. Nothing is stopping a rapper from making their own blog to publicize their own projects (as well as their friends projects). Nothing is stopping people from looking up entertainment law.

Bottom line: Institutionalized Racism is real but it's not a sufficient excuse in this instance. These guys aren't resourceful.

what he could do for himself.

Master P almost came to blows with his brother C-Murder over it. He just transferred his hustling over the music.

The reason I keep smh at the instituitional racism bit is because we can do a lot more for ourselves than we currently are doing. For every black person out here getting for themselves, there are probably five-to-ten who are letting other people cake up off of their labor.

Black people control about a third of the spending in America. We could do major things if we committed ourselves to selling to our own.
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or the DJ in 55, but you agree with the alt right troll.


>Master P almost came to blows with his brother C-Murder over
>it. He just transferred his hustling over the music.
>
>The reason I keep smh at the instituitional racism bit is
>because we can do a lot more for ourselves than we currently
>are doing. For every black person out here getting for
>themselves, there are probably five-to-ten who are letting
>other people cake up off of their labor.
>

The industry used Cash Money the label to attack Master P's label. So it doesn't stop with 100 artist building a label and trying to become the next Master P. The problem is bigger then that. When you the alt right troll and Ruckus sell Black folk short instead of calling out racism, that reinforces institutional racism.

>Black people control about a third of the spending in America.
> We could do major things if we committed ourselves to selling
>to our own.

That's not the message that alt right troll and Ruckus are pushing.

I never said that Master P did all of this only on 10K or that his money was totally clean. I never said any of that.

My point was that, in 2018, a rapper can put out his own material and build his own team without needing a label to do it for him. All of the tools exist and there are multiple rappers that have shown how profitable the approach can be. Even TDE was selling units before Interscope came around. Quality Control made noise without labels as well.

You insist on making this some sort of academic race studies discussion when it's apparent that hard-working, business-savvy indie labels can win.

I didn't say institutional racism didn't exist. Right now, you're being tribal instead of just consulting facts. I never said every rapper will be able to pull off what Master P did at his level. But to bring in all of this other stuff is really just you missing the point of the conversation. The post was about what Master P brought to rap.

If you feel that everything is tied up into the system of institutional racism (which I would be inclined to agree in many respects) that's fine. You can feel however you want. I don't wholly share that sentiment and I don't have to.

Again...where is the racism in this story? Where is your proof that musicians can't market themselves and find an audience IN 2018 due to institutionalized racism? I'm not saying the racism doesn't exist, I just want to know exactly how the labels are stopping determined indie labels from going door-to-door, hand-in-hand.


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std was not talking directly to you. I got the number wrong it was 57 not 55 when the DJ replied to you.

>I never said that Master P did all of this only on 10K or
>that his money was totally clean. I never said any of that.
>

But you did say "Master P basically gave us the keys to building a label" and "I can't understand why more rappers don't just form their own label"

sv answered with " i know why. because we refuse to educate ourselves in economics"

and you said that was "kinda true"

>My point was that, in 2018, a rapper can put out his own
>material and build his own team without needing a label to do
>it for him. All of the tools exist and there are multiple
>rappers that have shown how profitable the approach can be.
>Even TDE was selling units before Interscope came around.
>Quality Control made noise without labels as well.
>

If that was the point why did you agree with sv(we refuse to educate ourselves in economics) and std(He didn't wait on the White man to do for him)

>You insist on making this some sort of academic race studies
>discussion when it's apparent that hard-working,
>business-savvy indie labels can win.
>

So when sv takes shots at black folk and I respond or std brings the white man into it, they are not making some sort of academic race studies but I am ? You said "exactly", when std said "He didn't wait on the White man to do for him" Btw discussing institutional racism does not mean you are waiting on the white man to do something for you.

>I didn't say institutional racism didn't exist. Right now,
>you're being tribal instead of just consulting facts. I never
>said every rapper will be able to pull off what Master P did
>at his level. But to bring in all of this other stuff is
>really just you missing the point of the conversation. The
>post was about what Master P brought to rap.
>

I'm discussing what you said, which is more than what you are doing. You made arguments against comments I never made. Left questions I asked unanswered and then asked for actual examples of something. You are agreeing with "other stuff" that other people bring in and calling it something different when I address it. You say the ones you didn't reply to, were not talking to you directly, even though your first reply to me came after I replied to someone else.

No, the post is "what was one thing that Master P did and No limit did that other boutique labels before and after didn't? Master P and No Limit were Hot back then."

It's not what Master P brought to rap.

>If you feel that everything is tied up into the system of
>institutional racism (which I would be inclined to agree in
>many respects) that's fine. You can feel however you want. I
>don't wholly share that sentiment and I don't have to.
>

Never said you had to share anything. Why do you keep arguing against comments I never made ?

>Again...where is the racism in this story? Where is your
>proof that musicians can't market themselves and find an
>audience IN 2018 due to institutionalized racism? I'm not
>saying the racism doesn't exist, I just want to know exactly
>how the labels are stopping determined indie labels from going
>door-to-door, hand-in-hand.
>
>

Answered the story question in 51. You can't ask for proof, examples and ask questions if you are not answering any questions. Here are some questions for you to answer that you didn't answer the first time.

Would Drake have the same radio play and exposure if never signed to a label ?

Is it a lack of economics education or obstacles put in our path stopping artist from doing what you said ?

How many Black rappers in 2018 can build a label like Master P with shitty equipment, pirated software, using Soundcloud and Youtube ?

How long will these labels last after they are established ?

>because institutional racism puts us behind for sure

Institutional racism doesn't stop there, it continues.

but you
>can't tell me that people can't do certain things for
>themselves in 2018. That's simply not true. What's stopping
>a local rapper from doing exactly what Master P did in the
>90s.
>

I didn't tell you people can't do certain things for themselves. Not sure why you said that.

A local rapper is not facing the same thing Master P was up against. Some things are better and some are worse.

>Not a damn thing.
>
>Master P knew people in the streets and made the music they
>wanted to hear. He went from project to project selling his
>music out of the car. He could've had a deal with Interscope
>but decided to go for himself.
>

Master P had that and street knowledge and activities.

>Where's the racism in that story?

The racism is in using the model minority myth to criticize us and pretend like racism is not the problem. Master P made it so why can't we. Oprah is rich so why are we poor.

>
>When white people use the bootstrap metaphor it's BS. But
>let's not kid ourselves either....in 2018, you can find a way.
> You might not have money but you can find a way. Nothing is
>stopping a rapper from recording on shitty equipment with
>pirated software....uploading it all to Soundcloud and
>Youtube. Nothing is stopping a rapper from making their own
>blog to publicize their own projects (as well as their friends
>projects). Nothing is stopping people from looking up
>entertainment law.
>

How many Black rappers in 2018 can build a label like Master P with shitty equipment, pirated software, using Soundcloud and Youtube ? How long will these labels last after they are established ?

>Bottom line: Institutionalized Racism is real but it's not a
>sufficient excuse in this instance. These guys aren't
>resourceful.

So at the end of the day, racism is an excuse and it's all our fault ?

I can't understand why more rappers don't
>just form their own label (label meaning a functional business
>with its own infrastructure for legal, marketing, and
>publishing).


There is a reason why all these independent labels started with drug money, it's expensive AF.

You go out here and try and hire a legal and marketing team.






**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

U cant actually belive that story... really?

He changed the landscape and did something amazing but 10k aint do that..

Also we we acting like rhymesayers and strange musik dont exist.. they are both either 50% or greater black ownership indie powerhouses 20+ years in the game for RSE and 19 for Strange Musik

record label. Not sure why I had to explain that.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

we do it to ourselves man.

be that there are structural impediments that make it hard to break into an industry mostly controlled by white-owned and managed conglomerates, not that we as a people have some deficiency in abilities or our sense of initiative.

You went to a strange place with this one.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

complacent with little to no results

but we keep ‘staying the course’
praying
hoping
and wishing for a change

Need you to drop more knowledge on what us poor misguided folks need to do to come up.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Rappers are getting discovered on Soundcloud and Youtube all the time. A viral hit is enough to get a few shows nowadays. Labels aren't even needed to put music up on the streaming sites (Spotify/Apple). The right manager can build out all the necessary support staff as needed.

It's a grind but it can be done. We're in an era where someone can chart and win a Grammy without ever having a label-run machine behind them.


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But.........do you realize how many mothaphukkin rappers start their own label??????????

Hell, I started my own in HS LOL. Damn near every rapper out here at least has their own small unincorporated label...they just get picked up by real labels when their buzz gets going. Most of the rappers you see who have blown up, especially from L.A., either had their own (TDE), or came from a camp such as TDE. Even YG. Like....yeah......

And with that said...the shit is hard, and rarely ever works out for real. Not everyone is a businessman. Barely any of them will be as smart or innovative as P.

Not everyone is built for business like P was.

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commit.

as mentioned above

it was a ritual for some to cop 2-3 No Limit cd's every Tuesday

I was in 8th grade on a family trip to the Florida Keys. I brought my entire 200-CD carrying case with me. Pretty sure I left them in the airport on accident.

In any case, they really ramped up the promotion around the time Ghetto D dropped. The neon-orange plastic jumped out at you. You started to see 20 forthcoming albums (with release dates, right?) on the jewel case as soon as you opened it. Those "plastic" (we always called them that, but aren't 99% of CD cases made of plastic?) joints started dropping in every color imaginable. Damn near 20+ songs on every album and you were always guaranteed some nice collaborations.

I didn't get on the internet until 1998. I was living in Kentucky and I only knew what I wanted to buy based on whatever videos were on Yo MTV Raps and Rap City. No Limit would pique your (my?) interest back then with those forthcoming releases inserts. That's what really sticks out to me about Master P's run. Direct promotion to an audience that already spent money on your shit. Brilliant.

Back to losing my entire CD collection - if you've ever lost that much music on a physical format, you know how shitty it is. Black Star and Soundbombing 2 came out around the time I lost that CD case, and I was already leaning toward exploring that whole Rawkus/"conscious" sound coming out of NYC. My grandfather saw I was fucked up and offered to buy me 5 CDs to start my new collection. None of the No Limit albums got repurchased.

Damn...a fucking mistermaxxx post about Master P has me reminiscing HARD right now, haha. I wonder what my buying-habits/taste would look like if I had never lost that case.

"Fire......is cleansing." - KRS-One to Q-Tip after Tip's entire record collection burned down

rap verses of all time

yes better than Foxy, Kim, Rage, Da Brat, etc