all guns.

confiscate them.

after a certain date in the future, any private citizen found in possession of a gun is a criminal.

repeal the 2nd amendment.

get rid of guns.

but, sure.

They touch everything.

it's a long game. an enormous struggle. if we have the will to do it it can be done.

it may require bloodshed. like, an actual war. but it should be done. at whatever cost.

it's the only solution.

Indoors.

you. your family. your friends. whomever.

my family. my friends. i grew up in a house w/guns. my father takes me to the range to shoot.

outlaw guns.

all of them.

yours too if you have them.

Still nah


>you. your family. your friends. whomever.
>
>my family. my friends. i grew up in a house w/guns. my
>father takes me to the range to shoot.
>
>outlaw guns.
>
>all of them.
>
>yours too if you have them.
>
>

outlaw guns. the only solution.

the idea that we should be able to own guns to protect us from the govt is a cute idea that's entirely outdated. plus...what the fuck is a violent, legal revolution? it's an oxymoron. we have a revolution built in - we vote.

if we need to get violent w/the gov't then we gotta get illegal w/them. fine. but the idea that we should have them for protection from the govt has been stupid since...shit, at least since the USA dropped 2 nukes on Japan. the game was officially over for us then.

and that's what the 2nd amendment was originally about. you know that.

it was not about protection for private citizens from crime. or whatever bullshit reason you think it shouldn't be repealed. you won't convince me. stop talking.

repeal it.

>outlaw guns. the only solution.
>
>the idea that we should be able to own guns to protect us from
>the govt is a cute idea that's entirely outdated. plus...what
>the fuck is a violent, legal revolution? it's an oxymoron.
>we have a revolution built in - we vote.
>
>if we need to get violent w/the gov't then we gotta get
>illegal w/them. fine. but the idea that we should have them
>for protection from the govt has been stupid since...shit, at
>least since the USA dropped 2 nukes on Japan. the game was
>officially over for us then.
>
>and that's what the 2nd amendment was originally about. you
>know that.
>
>it was not about protection for private citizens from crime.
>or whatever bullshit reason you think it shouldn't be
>repealed. you won't convince me. stop talking.
>
>repeal it.

I think you should be able to have a hunting rifle and one hand gun. Anything else seems excessive IMO.

I'm all for strong gun laws but not a total ban.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/m4CC_0fu7Hc/hqdefault.jpg

nobody's asking you to do shit.

i'm not here to convince anyone.

you know this is the only solution and you're convinced it can't happen. lots of cowards out there. ppl w/weak wills. it's fine.

but that's the only way forward. until it happens we'll keep dealing w/this shit like we are this week. if we want it to stop that's the only answer. the rest is hot air and bullshit.

think and pray on it.

You must think I have some need to guess what's going to happen. I don't. I'm no CNN talking head or armchair/wannabe politico like you. I know what's right though and this is. You're too skurred to say bc you need to be right to prove you're smrt. I have no such need.

My ppl ask me to run for office and if I do this would be my issue. I'd lose. So? I raised the issue. It would take generations to get this done. Probably not in my lifetime. Fine. But it's the only answer.

http://www.dltk-teach.com/alphabuddies/image/skingk.gif

but a complete ban is perhaps too much, will not impact illegal gun ownership enough and ultimately might even cause more security issues than solve them as folks go underground.

unfortunately neither of these ideas, complete ban or stricter control, are likely to be in the cards down there.

prohibition is the only answer.

this guy in Vegas bought all of his shit legally.

he wasn't crazy. no criminal history. no background check would've denied him.

60 ppl dead.

500+ injured.

outlaw guns.

repeal the 2nd amendment.

the rest is hot air and bullshit.

I thought that right there put it in the class of illegal... enlighten me?

We don't have a complete prohibition on guns up here in Canada and while people are shot we rarely if ever have to deal with the scale of violence you do.

I don't really care about that. He had 23 guns. More than enough for the job.

Canada got it wrong. Australia got it right.

Prohibition.

it substantially reduces their annual food expense and the quality of meat they eat is superior to the supermarket... I don't think Canada has it wrong. I do think the U.S. does.. and given the problems Australia has with rabbits they might have it wrong too.

I don't want to be defending your country's love affair with guns so I'll let you have this.. you guys do whatever you want or can agree on... stay away from my government though.

what I do anywhere else - let alone in court.

Guess what? I don't identify myself as 'SoWhat' in court either. Does that blow your mind?????

don't get me wrong just cause I quip at you on that... I feel you on the issue... I do sincerely.

We are lost. It's for the future. We won't see this but it's gotta happen.

It may even prove to be true in time for us up here... I guess realistically I want you guys to start somewhere and improve your situation because it is critical.. I won't even visit your country in today's climate let alone contemplate living there.

1)People can take a "legal gun" and very quickly modify it to be semi or fully automatic. Gun manufactures encourage it with a wink.

2)A licensed gun dealer can still purchase machine guns. Those can be resold illegally - or stolen. Rr he could be a licensed gun dealer - I have no idea.

3)He could of bought the gun before 1986 - anyone could buy a fully automatic weapon legally back then. Esitmated 1/4 of a million legal machine guns still on the streets.

>1)People can take a "legal gun" and very quickly modify it to
>be semi or fully automatic. Gun manufactures encourage it with
>a wink.

which makes it illegal and an enforcement issue.

>
>2)A licensed gun dealer can still purchase machine guns. Those
>can be resold illegally - or stolen. Rr he could be a licensed
>gun dealer - I have no idea.
>

should be made illegal.

>3)He could of bought the gun before 1986 - anyone could buy a
>fully automatic weapon legally back then. Esitmated 1/4 of a
>million legal machine guns still on the streets.

should also be made illegal with stricter laws and the elimination of such grandfathered bullshit.

Not you but your position.

Semi auto vs auto. 30 dead vs 60. 250 injured vs 500.

Chile, please.

Prohibition.

I suppose the numbers are somewhat arbitrary but it's not like you guys have even tried tighter gun control so the argument is moot... don't knock it until you try it(i could take the same advice on your argument). Even if it wasn't the be all end all to what you seek you got to believe it would be an improvement.

and though you may not mean this to my previous response let me just say in no way is the food my folks put on the table hot air and bullshit.

as I said though I don't want to defend this shit.. especially in the emotionally charged atmosphere of the wake of this atrocity.

This is the 21st century.

But they are going to be gone b4 this happens. They won't live forever. Neither will we.

That way of life is gone. It must be sacrificed to save the rest of us.

they aren't hurting nobody but bambi, thumper and them.

I in no way think what you are asking for is a bad thing or wrong... I'm down for a world without guns. I don't know how you get there, but I do see the possibility for an improvement to the situation with stricter gun control as much more feasible... at least in the immediate future.

please believe I'd be in full support of every one of their guns bring confiscated.

My family owns guns. Dad has em all over the living room. His most prized possession is his mother's rifle.

I would go to his house and rip the motherfucker off the wall and walk it to the turn-in center in a heartbeat. I do not give a damn.

laws will only go so far.

I'm out for the night now... peace. good convo.

The facts are in. Ppl's emotional attachments to guns are no reason to keep dealing with the current and rising levels of gun violence. It's absurd.

And to pass a new amendment..

Then you need to:
An amendment may be proposed and sent to the states for ratification by either:
The United States Congress, whenever a two-thirds majority in both the Senate and the House of Representatives deem it necessary;
OR
A national convention, called by Congress for this purpose, on the application of the legislatures of two-thirds (currently 34) of the states.

To become part of the Constitution, an amendment must be ratified by either (as determined by Congress):

The legislatures of three-fourths (currently 38) of the states, within the stipulated time period—if any;
OR
State ratifying conventions in three-fourths (currently 38) of the states, within the stipulated time period—if any.
Upon being properly ratified, an amendment becomes an operative addition to the Constitution.


It simply will never happen. NEVER. NEVER.

This country is INSANE about it's guns.

Fucking Gabby Giffords - who has shot in the head - still owns guns.

after all we been through in this country

Outlawing/banning all guns via a constitutional amendment is a NEVER in THIS country.

NEVER.

N E V E R.

This country *is* a giant gun.

I know all of that. I know how hard it is.

It must be done.

We aren't the ones to do it bc our cynicism has convinced us it can't be done. We are weak and afraid. It's a job for the future. But we can begin the work knowing we won't live to see it come to fruition.

Since 1976

Still want your guns though, brother?

https://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/repeal-second-amendment

You do know the 2nd amendment is not for you, negro. It never was. Why defend it? Ask Philando.

Not good

i don't know of any stories of someone with a gun preventing corrupted/discriminatory policing.

i know of a lot of stories where the presence/fear of a weapon has exacerbated those tendencies.




people tend to focus on how much more powerful guns are today than they were 200 years ago in these debates.

we should also focus on how much more powerful the apparatus of state are today than they were then. some dudes and their friends having an arsenal could make a difference in lexington or gonzales. that doesn't mean anything today.

The purpose of the 2nd amendment was for guns to protect us from gov’t. True the hearts of people today are overtly wicked, but you have to be able to protect yourself. Places that have a no gun on the premises policy might want to change that so if something happens then there are people there to be able to fight back.

i would have thought the last 60 years would have made that clear.

never mind that's not even what the amendment says.

>i would have thought the last 60 years would have made that
>clear.
>
>never mind that's not even what the amendment says.

No it doesn’t spell it out, but that’s why the amendment was created in the first place.

... we already lost.

2nd amendment is outdated and hurting us.

There's no right to armed revolution against the government in the constitution.

Police assume I'm armed. How's that working out for us?

You can’t have a society where only the police have guns. Now if you’re talking about taking their guns too then yeah let’s repeal it. If not then leave the 2nd amendment alone.

USA is unique in the private gun thing. And uniquely violent. Btw our police are uniquely violent too bc they skurred of our guns.

Also - our police won't need as many guns she we don't have guns.

They killed the Dallas guy who was killing police (he had guns, btw) with a robot and C4. And even if he wasn't killed by a bomb, his usage of guns on police would've ended in a death sentence handed down the Courts anyway.

Guns aren't a deterrent against overzealous policing.

We will be all ears in how that worked out for you and yours.


Hell, right today they just say "I thought he had a gun" and get off.

FOH

What fantasy world do folks live in?

You got these lily white right wingers who use the "we need guns to protect us from government" argument.

But, aren't these often the same people with "Police Lives Matter" stickers and worship the military?


Like, how can you be "I need to stay armed to protect myself from the tyranny of government" AND "I can't believe those SOBs in the NFL wold disrespect the troops"

like, who do these folks think they are going to fight if they ever get to live out their "rise up" fantasy??

It's so weird to me.

So you need these automatics in case you ever need/want to clap back at the very groups you worship today??

Makes no sense.


Now, when its the rest of us...how was the right to bear arms worked out so far?

They just claim "I thought the cell phone was a gun" and get to kill you in the street, on camera.



And finally, the idea that either group thinks they would WIN in any scenario is baffling.



The "we need guns to protect us from government" is literally the worst, most confusing argument out there.

I legit think a lot of people who use that argument haven't grown up emotionally or some sh!t.

Will do right by you.


I find the two extremes of this debate so silly because there is SO much sensible common ground moderate things you could do to greatly alleviate this problem.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

and they do right by us as-is?

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

is also an area where the government is most definitely going to do wrong by people of color.

it's hard to imagine a change in gun control laws that doesn't mean tougher sentences for the people already in the justice system.

How we doin?

to own guns.



>How we doin?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

You can play cute all you want. You won't change my mind. I'm not trying to change yours. You already know I'm right but you have an irrational attachment to guns or you're a contrarian. Doesn't matter. My position is radical and inflexible. Immutable. And morally sound and factually correct.

Meanwhile pragmatically, I doubt if "bump stocks" (the thing this Vegas shooter used to legally make his semi-automatic weapons fully automatic) will even get banned after this.

This country is insane about guns, to a degree that not even constitutional fundamentalism really explains.

We are crazier about guns than freedom of speech.

it explains everything.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

+ Rugged Individualism.

This country is completely fucked for all time.

Totally irrational.

Like trying to take a child's favorite toy from them.

Heard a stat yesterday...40% of mass shootings have happened since the assault weapons ban expired...which was 2004

Haven't heard anyone explain why somebody would need a semi-automatic assault rifle

Ironic given the conversations about policing in our country... and there's proposals to make silencers more easily available

How can one be pro-life and not see this issue in that context

Abortion = bad
40+ converted M16s = good
(c) 'murica

No compromise wanted. Not interested at all.

My position is rigid and radical. It will not be changed. Nothing less will be accepted.

A lesson I've learned in the current state of affairs...you have to start where most people agree

assault weapons designed to kill as many people as efficiently as possible should not be readily available to the public

Taking a rigid hardline just gives the opposition room to dig in

Think the approach over a bit is all I'm saying

I'm not about compromise on this. Inflexible and radical.

We won't see it in our lifetime I bet bc we lack the will to do it. We have swallowed the NRA's bullshit and convinced ourselves this can't be done.

But we know this is the only way. Any review of the facts points to this conclusion.

I'm not here to convince. I'm revealing a truth you already know but won't speak. I'll speak it. Maybe I'll do more on it.

Anyone who owns a gun has to keep it at a center. The center has everything needed to maintain a well armed militia and if a gun registered to a center is used in a crime the center gets closed or otherwise penalized

There are a number of other solutions that aren't "ban all guns" which would be great if we didn't have a society that desperately wants to destroy black people. Meaning black people will need guns too

Total prohibition.

it's hopeless

So future generations may have to bring it to full fruition. But we can begin the work at least. We can at least talk about it in real terms and stop acting like it just cannot happen ever. Bc it can happen.

You goofy as hell.

Total prohibition.

they have them on NPR after every mass shooting (so every week basically), these editors of various "serious" conservative publications/organizations, and their arguments are so nonsensical and defeatist that I wonder how they have so much power. It's all base emotion, with 0 facts but even their vision of why freedom to own guns is so important is barely articulated. I once listened to some college professor living in the suburbs in Ohio, explain why he needed to pack heat on his trip from home to work because sometimes he stopped for gas and you "never know what could happen". These dudes (they're almost always guys) are so terrified, and they want everyone else to be feeling that fear too. I keep hearing them talk about common-sense, and it hurts my head.

And mostly it comes back to one stat for me: less than a third of Americans live in a gun-owning household
http://www.norc.org/PDFs/GSS%20Reports/GSS_Trends%20in%20Gun%20Ownership_US_1972-2014.pdf

With surely a decent portion of these people in favor of some restrictions, the current state of gun rules make no sense to me. Granted as a European this is an area where I'll always be an outsider, since I don't believe in private gun ownership, period.

at the end of it all - the attachment to private gun ownership is purely based on emotion. there's nothing rational going on there.

and all of the facts and figures show how toxic private gun ownership is for us. it does us NO good. our murder rates and suicide rates are sky high compared to other similar nations. why? b/c we have this insane right to own guns. other nations don't. and they don't have the violence issues we have.

all of the gun control stuff is absurd. none of it will solve the problems we have. there's only one solution.

I'm in this line. Get those pieces of shit the fuck off the block.
STEEP penalties for violations.

End the war on drugs.
START the war on guns.

>End the war on drugs.
>START the war on guns.

Gun control measures would get passed in months, if not weeks.

Just get some videos out there of a bunch of black and brown dudes, in multiple cities, lined up to get their automatics.

our whole generation is cowardly on this issue.

cowardly in that we're scared to even try to do what we know is the right thing - the only solution to our gun problem.

we also have an irrational attachment to guns. like children who won't let go of a prized toy.

so yeah - if you're concerned about being right and guessing what'll happen going w/the cynical choice is safe. and on this point you could be guessing right.

so the fuck what?

prohibiting private ownership of guns is the only solution to our violence problem. ppl w/sense know that. and that's my point.

we probably won't see this b/c we're wimps. future generations will have to find the courage to do what's right on this point. b/c we're going to fail. b/c we lack the will. as you've demonstrated.

they want. The majority of this country does not want the same thing that you do...

http://time.com/4968467/las-vegas-shooting-victims-gun-control/

HEAVENS NO!!!!

i'm in the minority??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

omg.

i have to change my mind then, right? b/c i need to be on the winning side otherwise i'm a loser!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i must follow the herd.

the herd says 'guns'.

i must say 'guns'.

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


prohibit private ownership of guns.

repeal the 2nd amendment.

there hasn't been a vote on this since the original ratification of the Constitution.

so i'm not sure what you're going on about.

i fully understand the amendment process.

i fully understand that you and the rest of our generation and those older than us especially are afraid to even try amending the constitution to ban private ownership of guns. you've made yourself clear on it.

you don't read so i know you haven't seen where i've said you'll be dead b4 this happens.

i'll say it again

you are going to die.

and sometime after that the 2nd amendment will be repealed.

i am expressing my full support of repealing the 2nd amendment.

again - reading isn't your thing.

so you didn't read the part where i said i understand this won't happen soon.

i'll also be dead.

and i'm still expressing my support for repealing the 2nd amendment and banning private ownership of guns.

you still don't get it.

you won't.

i don't care.

>our whole generation is cowardly on this issue.
>
>

I would expand the thought to say we are cowardly on many issues, as was the generation before us...but, either way I agree.


I will never understand how little our society values life.


How little 'Murrica values life, especially compared to other things , explains a lot of the country's problems.


I mean, a school full of white kids got shot up in their school and nothing changed.

how should resources be pooled so we can take on the billionaire gun industry/lobbyists?
not only that....stay on point with the narrative since there is so much misleading information and tragedies, from what it seems every other week now, to distract the public?

I would like to see private ownership of military artillery banned too.

the cynic in me says that's true.

but i also know of winning campaigns that didn't raise as much $ as the opponent.

i don't think $ should be the concern here.

it'd be more about ppl organizing and making themselves heard clearly. a groundswell of public support. grassroots type shit. if/when there are enough ppl willing to speak up on the issue and willing to get and stay in their legislators' faces on the issue...it can be done. b/c legislators allegedly won't tackle the issue b/c they're so skurred of ___ running candidates against them. if the ppl make it clear that they'll elect and re-elect legislators who are in favor of gun prohibition then who gives a damn what ___ says and how many candidates ___ funds?

whose country is this? the ppl's or ___'s?

lawless gangsters killing each other in the street over alcohol (guns)

do we want to create a black market like that?
doesnt sound safe

don't we already have a black market for gunz?

so what are you talking about?

lol

ban private ownership of guns.

confiscate them all.

criminalize possession.

anyone in possession is subject to prosecution just for possessing them.

yup - it's going to create some criminals.

it's gonna take quite an effort to do this.

you won't live to see it.

minority again....

and you really want to ban guns?

The only reason guns are legal is because this land was colonized by Europeans and they needed to protect their colonies from the indigenous and enslaved Africans.


So with that historical context where people who do illegal things have no problem finding a gun you want to disarm the entire population?

Guns are probably easier to find than drugs only difference is they don't sell them at Rite Aid.

Repeal the 2nd amendment. Ban private ownership of guns.

to establish a contrary position. Very little dialgue is possible in a thread like this.

Cook away, though.

ppl can go on about that if they want. That's not the solution though, IMO.

We don't NEED guns. We want them. Even though all the facts show they're immensely harmful for us and the ease with which we can acquire them results in serious, gravely negative consequence. And like NO positive consequence. Except they're fun toys. That kill ppl. By design.

Total prohibition.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/05/opinion/guns-second-amendment-nra.html

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/5/16430684/nra-congress-money-no

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLXzEPRUQAUllCj.jpg