https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/upshot/how-did-marriage-become-a-mark-of-privilege.html?smid=tw-share

Women, meanwhile, have learned from watching a generation of divorce that they need to be able to support themselves. And many working-class women aren’t interested in taking responsibility for a man without a job.

“They say, ‘If he’s not offering money or assets, why make it legal?’ ” said June Carbone, a law professor at the University of Minnesota and the author with Naomi Cahn of “Marriage Markets: How Inequality Is Remaking the American Family.”


Marriage is a dying institution unless two people really really want that legal binding agreement.

I don't know if children and marriage go hand in hand anymore.

I think choosing to be a parent is something that has intrinsic value. No matter how poor or rich, one has to look at their lives and be comfortable with the idea of adding another mouth to the mix.

when I read stuff like this I start thinking that we have lost all faith in each other. fuck that tho....

let me get my thoughts together first...

I think money is a big factor for men asking women to get married. But I honestly don't think many people find it necessary anymore.

I am a single mother, with a good income and the only thing I wish I had was a more involved father. Would that have come through marriage? Possibly, but there is no guarantee.

I also made more than all the men I dated so legally marrying them would be a big financial risk.

Two people need to define love and family for themselves.

>Two people need to define love and family for themselves.

Where are you on love?

like. Many of these replies presupposes that marriage will fail. I believe we shouldn't go in thinking that. When you love someone those thoughts don't even cross your mind. I often wonder if I'm crazy or if it's others, lol. Because that feeling of love can't be described. Denying yourself, totally selfless...think about the relationship between a parent and child. Then imagine that kind of relationship with your mate. I was robbed of it once and It's been hard to forget it but, I will forever chase down being in love again.

I get there's a lot of illusions...
deflections

the problem is choice (c)

their own marriages will fail. however, none of us are immune to it and have to realize that it is a reality that many face.

that love feeling is fantastic. no argument on that. just can't be blinded by it because there are so many aspects to relationships in addition to love. marriage us ultimately a business (as in doing things together, resource and time wise) partnership. if the business part starts declining, the love will tend to follow.

but if your shit is falling, its easy to recognize. that's if you care to work on the relationship.

with loving your spouse?

what it looks like
feel like
suppose to be like...

regardless of what the spiritual/religious leanings are, the people define the relationship.

and it makes sense why you believe marriage is business. I wholeheartedly disagree tho :-)

just for clarity, marriage isn't only a business. but its a huge component, along with all the mushy stuff lol.

soon

especially for bw

I'd get a tax break. That's about it.

but if you find the right person it's a pretty awesome union.

Actually has me in a conundrum, because I'm warming up the the idea of marrying my SO, but I don't want the .gov or anyone else all up in my paper. I'm really worried about being able to leave things to my son if anything happens to me, and my SO is not my son's mom, so...

Does it vary much from state to state?

In Canada....after living together for one year you are considered common law and all the same rules apply as if you are effectively married in terms of family court (alimony, seperation settlements, etc).

From what people are posting...it sounds like Marraige entails more legal ramifications than simply shacking up with someone.

A good woman builds you up and makes you feel on top of the world.

I'm twice the person I would be without marriage.




>I'd get a tax break. That's about it.
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

What about the legal document changes the relationship?

I mean, there are definitely some people who do it without a marriage but IMO I think it's much easer for folks to bounce when you aren't married.

For me, it was my vow/promise to my wife that I would never leave her and always be there to take care of our family.

We both come from divorced households as well. It's the main reason it took so long for me to pop the question.

It's the declaration to everyone you know, god, family and the government that makes it a big deal.



>What about the legal document changes the relationship?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

that's the foundation. without something solid to stand on a marriage is destined to fail. Marriage is intended so that men and women can become one. He gives life to her and she give life to the world. Folks make mockery of it tho. It's not just for convenience! Life has little value if men are to go their way and women go about theirs. Nah, we complete each other. We need each other.

If God is not the foundation my point is moot

Probably should have clarified in my initial post. My beef with marriage are the laws, not the union.

SO and I and working on our fifth year right now. We live together. I'm mostly there, except for the formality.

Taa Taas may sag, and there will always be some younger broad out there, but no matter what, I am willing to go before family, god, the law and say I am promising to stick by your side.

one thing to tell a girl in the bed or just when you are alone. Whole nother thing to make that declaration to a whole room of people and the government.

Contracts are real.

>Probably should have clarified in my initial post. My beef
>with marriage are the laws, not the union.
>
>SO and I and working on our fifth year right now. We live
>together. I'm mostly there, except for the formality.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>Whole nother thing to make that declaration to a whole
>room of people and the government.


He was breaking down how the social aspect of marriage is one of the "glues" of a strong marriage..

I probably should start researching the legal stuff. marriage *has* come up in a few conversations recently.

>A good woman builds you up and makes you feel on top of the
>world.
>
>I'm twice the person I would be without marriage.

stats before, but I don't feel like looking for them now. Something about married men living a few years longer than unmarried.

>stats before, but I don't feel like looking for them now.
>Something about married men living a few years longer than
>unmarried.

Just having a woman around to nag you into going to the doctor probably buys you some extra time.

My wife and I owe a grip, but its our fault for various reasons that I sometimes don't mind.

, middle class kids. Two incomes is better than one. Yeah I wouldn't marry no broke negro either.


>https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/upshot/how-did-marriage-become-a-mark-of-privilege.html?smid=tw-share
>
>Women, meanwhile, have learned from watching a generation of
>divorce that they need to be able to support themselves. And
>many working-class women aren’t interested in taking
>responsibility for a man without a job.
>
>“They say, ‘If he’s not offering money or assets, why
>make it legal?’ ” said June Carbone, a law professor at
>the University of Minnesota and the author with Naomi Cahn of
>“Marriage Markets: How Inequality Is Remaking the American
>Family.”
>
>
>Marriage is a dying institution unless two people really
>really want that legal binding agreement.
>
>
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

***
I ain't lyin. This shit i'm making up is true...

they want to feel special.

above the rest of us.

that's why so many of them clutched pearls when states started giving out licenses to same sex couples. b/c suddenly they were on the same plane with...those ppl. and plenty of them still can't handle that.

that's what it showed me. married ppl like feeling special.

like there's something special about committing to someone else 'forever' knowing you can get out of it when you want (no fault divorce exists in all 50 states, player).

it's not that special.

well, i know your god tells you it is. so good for you.

but whatever.

where a bunch of married ppl were talking about their relationships. and it was cute.

but in the end it was clear. there was a hierarchy. the longer married the higher the status.

and i saw it all by then.

them niggas really think they special.

for what?

Pay me what you owe.
Didn't tell us happy anniversary or nothing.

wtf i care for?

i mean, 'yay'.

for what?

ppl who've been together 50 years w/o the license - can they get the same party?

why?

pssh.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

i don't think it deserves special treatment.

"Get ready....for your blessing....."

weddings are for people who want to feel special, sure.
*marriage* is for people who want to try beating the statistic and maintaining that highest level of commitment

maybe some people are showoffs and extra about it, but I dont know any married couples like that (okp knew about my engagement and then one day I was just married with no announcement), people put their family lives with spouses and kids on display the same way they would if they were single

"marriage is for people who want to feel special" sounds a little insecure, like *eyeroll* "who do they think they are being so happy?"

And your institutions. Your way of life. Your choices. What you prize. What you love.

I'd burn it all if only I could.

https://media.giphy.com/media/PHHnS232TuS4M/source.gif

http://25.media.tumblr.com/6f05a0e7781ddd689069eaddbf4a4d92/tumblr_mszelfW1951s78xdco1_500.gif

Isn’t that funny.

My first point remains.

RE: naw I just despise you ppl.
>And your institutions. Your way of life. Your choices. What
>you prize. What you love.
>
>I'd burn it all if only I could.

I don't want you to hurt yourself.

but if that is all the marriage is based on it probably won't last.

it's not the only reason many ppl get married but it's one of them.

And I don't. Lol

Everything I said in here is fiction. Why give OKP my true feelings? For assholes to shit on? Lol.

I just make up shit and ride with it.

i love being married but i also loved being in a relationship with my wife before we were married, just as much. literally nothing changed for us after marriage outside of some legal or tax sh*t, which had 0 to do with our decision. we literally got married b/c you're "supposed to". of course, we never discussed it that way (we're not THAT unromantic) but, in retrospect, that's clearly the case. we had been together 10 years, love each other and we wanted a party. and for people to get off our backs lol

Factory workers ballin out buying houses and having 2.5 kids and a muscle car for 50k is a wrap...

Gotta stop romanticizing that era.. in the scheme of us history it wasnt even 20% of the timeline and human history.. shit a blip

>Factory workers ballin out buying houses and having 2.5 kids
>and a muscle car for 50k is a wrap...
>
>Gotta stop romanticizing that era.. in the scheme of us
>history it wasnt even 20% of the timeline and human history..
>shit a blip


yeah, I don't think people have that proper perspective that the post war boom that built the middle class was not the norm for u.s. history,

Peoples perspective on large swaths of time is poor anyway

ENTIRE block had a college degree. Most were blue collar....train/bus workers, mechanics, all that...and they ALLLL owned their houses. Bought them in the 70's and 80's for like the $130,000-$180,000 range. I know some who never made more than $35,000-$40,000 in their highest salary year, but they all got amazing retirement benefits.

Now, all of us who are their kids, who have degrees and much higher paying jobs, can't afford to live in that area at alllllllll, because it's way too expensive. It's not even like it's nicer or like it's developed and turned into Baldwin Hills!

I just looked up my parents house, and yeah, they paid $159,000 in 1988...but it hit $650,000 in value in 2006. So yea, houses were 140K-160K back in the 80's out here.

Yup how much of LBC is longshoreman

but that 30 years and a pension died wth the 401k... and the 401k will die because you can make everyone an independent contractor ...

Hawthorne, Lawndale, and the list keep going. So much of that in LA was Aerospace and Shipping money. Blue collar folks working those jobs and living good. worse thing I ever did was falling into my parents bullshit trap of taking a public sector job.