"B" or "b" doesn't matter..

After this election and partially because of the all the semiotics and linguistics work that young Wasalu Jaco (S.O.S.A Guild) has been doing I found myself delving into a lot of republican messaging w/Frank Luntz and eventually cognitive linguistics with George Lakoff..

If you dont peep his work you should (especially about political messaging)..

I think the word black at a subconscious level is doing a number on minorities and white people alike.

Are we using it in a way that fully understands its impact? negative or positive?

- We bristle when white people even say it in a regular ass sentence (Adele at the grammys).

- White people immediately make it more radical than it is (BLM)

imo when rural/small city mid west white people saw the DNC alignment with BLM it was so foreign (and powerful) that it turned them off or at least mad them feel fully excluded.

I've watch pretty smart people make a mountain out of a mole hill and completely disregard context when it is used.

Lakoff's thesis is based on his idea of Frames... "Frames are mental structures used in thought; every thought uses frames. Every word in every language is defined relative to a mental structure — a frame. Frames, in themselves, are unavoidable and neutral."


What Frame is being activated when the word Black is used?

Just like Republican messaging has shifted the definition of "Liberal" (liberal elite, liberal media) to something so bad everyone on the left is "progressive" now..

Can activists/pundits/smart people purposely reframe the word so that in the long run the gut reaction isnt so jarring? That it can become a benefit to causes?

Some basic Lakoff

https://georgelakoff.com/2016/07/23/understanding-trump-2/#more-5082

excerpt "How Can Democrats Do Better?

First, don’t think of an elephant. Remember not to repeat false conservative claims and then rebut them with the facts. Instead, go positive. Give a positive truthful framing to undermine claims to the contrary. Use the facts to support positively-framed truth. Use repetition.

Second, start with values, not policies and facts and numbers. Say what you believe, but haven’t been saying. For example, progressive thought is built on empathy, on citizens caring about other citizens and working through our government to provide public resources for all, both businesses and individuals. Use history. That’s how America started. The public resources used by businesses were not only roads and bridges, but public education, a national bank, a patent office, courts for business cases, interstate commerce support, and of course the criminal justice system. From the beginning, the Private Depended on Public Resources, both private lives and private enterprise.

Over time those resources have included sewers, water and electricity, research universities and research support: computer science (via the NSF), the internet (ARPA), pharmaceuticals and modern medicine (the NIH), satellite communication (NASA and NOA), and GPS systems and cell phones (the Defense Department). Private enterprise and private life utterly depend on public resources. Have you ever said this? Elizabeth Warren has. Almost no other public figures. And stop defending “the government.” Talk about the public, the people, Americans, the American people, public servants, and good government. And take back freedom. Public resources provide for freedom in private enterprise and private life.

The conservatives are committed to privatizing just about everything and to eliminating funding for most public resources. The contribution of public resources to our freedoms cannot be overstated. Start saying it.

And don’t forget the police. Effective respectful policing is a public resource. Chief David O. Brown of the Dallas Police got it right. Training, community policing, knowing the people you protect. And don’t ask too much of the police: citizens have a responsibility to provide funding so that police don’t have to do jobs that should be done by others.

Unions need to go on the offensive. Unions are instruments of freedom — freedom from corporate servitude. Employers call themselves job creators. Working people are profit creators for the employers, and as such they deserve a fair share of the profits and respect and acknowledgement. Say it. Can the public create jobs. Of course. Fixing infrastructure will create jobs by providing more public resources that private lives and businesses depend on. Public resources to create more public resources. Freedom creates opportunity that creates more freedom.

Third, keep out of nasty exchanges and attacks. Keep out of shouting matches. One can speak powerfully without shouting. Obama sets the pace: Civility, values, positivity, good humor, and real empathy are powerful. Calmness and empathy in the face of fury are powerful. Bill Clinton won because he oozed empathy, with his voice, his eye contact, and his body. It wasn’t his superb ability as a policy wonk, but the empathy he projected and inspired.

Values come first, facts and policies follow in the service of values. They matter, but they always support values.

Give up identity politics. No more women’s issues, black issues, Latino issues. Their issues are all real, and need public discussion. But they all fall under freedom issues, human issues. And address poor whites! Appalachian and rust belt whites deserve your attention as much as anyone else. Don’t surrender their fate to Trump, who will just increase their suffering.

And remember JFK’s immortal, “Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.” Empathy, devotion, love, pride in our country’s values, public resources to create freedoms. And adulthood.

Be prepared. You have to understand Trump to stand calmly up to him and those running with him all over the country."

If we were all truly American we wouldn't be trying to establish what kind of American we are

We are talking strictly language...

There was a time when "Christian" wasn't the way we described america as a country.. catholics didn't fuck with protestants (and vice versa) AT ALL..

Republicans literally changed their use of language to subvert politics..

This is not just something they can do.. Anyone can

if I'm following what you're saying. Every descriptor just says 'black' at the end of the day.

When I hear it spoken or see it written all I think is " I wish there were a place where human beings were better"

but when a white girl says it... does that change how you hear the word?

the actual word black is just a word.

nothing is "just" a word. That is the whole point.. every word is attached to a pre-existing frame in your brain...

When someone says.. "I am on the come up" you understand what that means even though you know the word UP is a direction (the person is not literally travelling). That direction is a metaphor for progress in your head. That happens w/o you ever recognizing it consciously.

he don't care about shit

and I'm ok with that.

Can it be changed though?

We have watched mad words "change" over last 50 yrs...

and no, we can't change those folks. They hate us cause they ain't us

Nah.. change its framing in the brain....

I am not talking super racist folks.. their framing of the word is deeper

I watch black people react badly to the word when its said.. (i.e. the Adele grammy speech).

not sure how we change that. It's ingrained in our brain to cringe when a white person says "my Black friends"

We've been hit over the head so long by white folk we tend to look for shit whether its there or not.

I feel like sometimes we miss the big picture because we are looking for a reason to be outraged and spend too much time trying to get others on board with us.

that's a tricky one.

That programming can change though...

There are examples already

I mean Trump just did the shit in like what 3 months..

Remember what "Fake News" used to mean?

Think about what it means now...

lamestream media
driveby media

they been on that fake news shit for years


Trump didn't change anyones mind, he just made it cool to come out that crazy closet.

nah he literally did...

Fake News was a termed used to describe literally fake news that was decimated during the campaign from shit like Breibart and Alex Jones..

Trump took the term and is reframing it so now it means CNN or other reputable outlets..

Sure...

but he took a term coined by the "left" to explain Alex Jones-ish Pizzagate conspiracy stuff and defined it for his own use

liberal
democrat
inner city/city/urban/high crime area
those people
sjw's


although the above don't mean Black pacifically....it is used to denote non-white or non-inclusive

"Get ready....for your blessing....."

is Black and proud.

When you use their language the fight is over.

Lakoff sounds like he wants to coddle white racists.

Not at all...

Lakoff wants the left to get better at its use of language...

"Can you talk a little about progressives who are surprised that rational arguments don't win elections?

Cognitive scientists study how people really think - how brains work, how we get ideas out of neurons, how framing and metaphorical thought work, the link between language and thought, and so on.

But other academic fields have not been using these results, especially, political science, public policy, law, economics, in short, the main areas studied by progressives who go into politics. As a result, they teach an inadequate view of reason and "rationality." They miss the fact that our brains are structured by hundreds of conceptual metaphors and frames early in life, that we can only understand what our brains allow, and that conservatives and progressives have acquired different brain circuitry with the consequence that their normal modes of reason are different.

What progressives call "rational arguments" are not normal modes of real reason. What counts as a "rational argument" is not the same for progressives and conservatives. And even the meaning of concepts and words may be different. Cognitive linguists have learned a lot about how all this works, but few progressives have studied cognitive linguistics. For a thorough review of such differences, take a look at my book Whose Freedom?, which shows how reasoning about freedom can take two utterly different forms for progressives and conservatives."

http://www.truth-out.org/progressive-picks/item/27576-george-lakoff-progressives-cannot-succeed-without-expressing-respect-values

When you look at the Bradley effect

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_effect

Dog whistle and Lee Atwaters admission

https://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/14/lee-atwaters-southern-strategy-interview/?_r=0

He said Bill was good with empathy but Lakoff didn't mention the Sista Souljah moment.

No..

He is trying to explain the mechanism behind why this shit happens..

I mean could be said that "Bill" is falling for the same framing issue..

This idea is not necessarily new... dog whistle politics just wins because they understand it better..

they reject them because of white supremacy

>No..
>
>He is trying to explain the mechanism behind why this shit
>happens..

White supremacy is the reason it happens.

>I mean could be said that "Bill" is falling for the same
>framing issue..
>
>This idea is not necessarily new... dog whistle politics just
>wins because they understand it better..

Understand it better ? These progressive arguments are not hard to understand.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bill-clinton-make-america-great-again_us_57d06ccfe4b0a48094a749fc

See that is actually the underpinning of Lakoff...

"Real reason is embodied in two ways. It is physical, in our brain circuitry. And it is based on our bodies as the function in the everyday world, using thought that arises from embodied metaphors. And it is mostly unconscious. False reason sees reason as fully conscious, as literal, disembodied, yet somehow fitting the world directly, and working not via frame-based, metaphorical, narrative and emotional logic, but via the logic of logicians alone.
"

I dont think they actually understand them... it literally doesnt fit their framed world view

I need an executive summary or something....


"Get ready....for your blessing....."

I had no idea until that post.

but yeah, the OP is definitely on one.

C'mon son... let me be great

to your subject line.

This:
"Give up identity politics. No more women’s issues, black issues, Latino issues. Their issues are all real, and need public discussion. But they all fall under freedom issues, human issues. And address poor whites! Appalachian and rust belt whites deserve your attention as much as anyone else. Don’t surrender their fate to Trump, who will just increase their suffering."

He's guilty of what's he's writing against. He's renamed something that's way more complex and important and put it under an inherently negative leaning term of "Identity Politics".
That alone leaves a sour taste for ANYTHING this dude has to say about what B/black people should be doing with regards to making our lives more pleasant to live.




"Get ready....for your blessing....."

Well I am applying his logic for something very specific...

He doesn't actually address what I want to in the OP... but we can use his work

of his overall agenda.

>Well I am applying his logic for something very specific...
>
>He doesn't actually address what I want to in the OP... but we
>can use his work

I don't believe the onus is on US as B/black folks to once again change up our identity to pacify the fears and misunderstandings of others. I think we should take ownership wholeheartedly and broaden the scope & implications of our chosen term of Black (stressing the capital B here). See my post from a few weeks ago for more that though....

I have no real issue hearing it in general from anyone. But like I posted already, it depends on who's saying it and the context that they're saying it. There are nuances in how the word is spoken that we just pick up on by nature.


"Get ready....for your blessing....."

>of his overall agenda.
>
>>Well I am applying his logic for something very specific...
>>
>>He doesn't actually address what I want to in the OP... but
>we
>>can use his work
>
>I don't believe the onus is on US as B/black folks to once
>again change up our identity to pacify the fears and
>misunderstandings of others. I think we should take ownership
>wholeheartedly and broaden the scope & implications of our
>chosen term of Black (stressing the capital B here). See my
>post from a few weeks ago for more that though....
>
>I have no real issue hearing it in general from anyone. But
>like I posted already, it depends on who's saying it and the
>context that they're saying it. There are nuances in how the
>word is spoken that we just pick up on by nature.
>

No agenda... just an intellectual question about the use of language..

>>of his overall agenda.
>>
>>>Well I am applying his logic for something very specific...
>
>>>
>>>He doesn't actually address what I want to in the OP... but
>>we
>>>can use his work
>>
>>I don't believe the onus is on US as B/black folks to once
>>again change up our identity to pacify the fears and
>>misunderstandings of others. I think we should take
>ownership
>>wholeheartedly and broaden the scope & implications of our
>>chosen term of Black (stressing the capital B here). See my
>>post from a few weeks ago for more that though....
>>
>>I have no real issue hearing it in general from anyone. But
>>like I posted already, it depends on who's saying it and the
>>context that they're saying it. There are nuances in how the
>>word is spoken that we just pick up on by nature.
>>
>
>No agenda... just an intellectual question about the use of
>language..
>
>
>


"Get ready....for your blessing....."

hmm maybe..

"Get ready....for your blessing....."

nah not at all..

I would've just forgotten if we did this beforehand. I know I have tried to enter use of language into the convo in some previous posts but shit has been crickets so I tried starting a post to directly address it.

1. i love the word 'b/Black'. i think it's used correctly. as of now i don't know of another identifier for Black ppl that works better.

2. the 'radical' in me is sick of being told to coddle these motherfucking honkies who get all deep down in their feelings when they hear our truth as told by us from our perspective. fuck them. they need to be taught some hard lessons. keyword: hard. fuck they feelings. but the 'moderate' in me says it's important to work w/these honkey feelings b/c Whitey is still sitting in the seat of power and Whitey got nukes and shit and so the 'hard' approach won't get us anywhere but ignored and locked the fuck up. so maybe a softer approach is better - one where we convince them that we're not in a zero sum game and we're not out to GET them (though they deserve to get got and they know it). that all we want is what is guaranteed in the Constitution and we're not looking for anything more and we're not looking for anything that would harm them or cause them to sacrifice. we just want what everyone wants - nothing special. (of course, i know this ain't quite true b/c the problem is we are not on the same playing field as Whitey YET b/c of Whitey's shenanigans and so for real we need and deserve a leg-up to get us to where they are).

but here's where the shit breaks down. here's where Whitey doesn't understand WHY motherfuckers go on about 'identity politics'. the truth is some of us have been done so dirty by Whitey('s ancestors) that we just gotta have some extra help or some extra protection to get what's guaranteed in the Constitution. and if that shit hurts current Whitey's ol' fragile ass feelings then so-fucking-what. we Blacks got PTSD and need collective therapy - motherfucking Whitey has some sort of oppressor guilt and they need collective therapy. they need to get the fuck out they motherfucking feelings and do what's right. ain't nobody got time to coddle those bitches. fuck them.

>1. i love the word 'b/Black'. i think it's used correctly.
>as of now i don't know of another identifier for Black ppl
>that works better.

as a descriptor it is a perfect word.. but it is also powerful. I guess my basic premise was do we wield its power w/o realizing how best to do so..

>
>2. the 'radical' in me is sick of being told to coddle these
>motherfucking honkies who get all deep down in their feelings
>when they hear our truth as told by us from our perspective.
>fuck them. they need to be taught some hard lessons.
>keyword: hard. fuck they feelings. but the 'moderate' in me
>says it's important to work w/these honkey feelings b/c Whitey
>is still sitting in the seat of power and Whitey got nukes and
>shit and so the 'hard' approach won't get us anywhere but
>ignored and locked the fuck up. so maybe a softer approach is
>better - one where we convince them that we're not in a zero
>sum game and we're not out to GET them (though they deserve to
>get got and they know it). that all we want is what is
>guaranteed in the Constitution and we're not looking for
>anything more and we're not looking for anything that would
>harm them or cause them to sacrifice. we just want what
>everyone wants - nothing special. (of course, i know this
>ain't quite true b/c the problem is we are not on the same
>playing field as Whitey YET b/c of Whitey's shenanigans and so
>for real we need and deserve a leg-up to get us to where they
>are).
>
>but here's where the shit breaks down. here's where Whitey
>doesn't understand WHY motherfuckers go on about 'identity
>politics'. the truth is some of us have been done so dirty by
>Whitey('s ancestors) that we just gotta have some extra help
>or some extra protection to get what's guaranteed in the
>Constitution. and if that shit hurts current Whitey's ol'
>fragile ass feelings then so-fucking-what. we Blacks got PTSD
>and need collective therapy - motherfucking Whitey has some
>sort of oppressor guilt and they need collective therapy.
>they need to get the fuck out they motherfucking feelings and
>do what's right. ain't nobody got time to coddle those
>bitches. fuck them.
>

lol.. regardless this America experiment continues... we KNOW they arent just gonna "come around" and for the left leaning ones I still think they are subconsciously reacting to the word.

wouldn't ackrite.

it's not about us and what we call ourselves. it's THEM.

it literally IS them.. its how they think....

Now that we know that what can we do to navigate said mental frames for benefit..

MInd you this is strictly from a messaging stand point and not from a hard policy standpoint

we already have 'African American'. they seem to prefer that one sometimes. i don't like that one. w/e. i doubt we have a branding issue - the problem is in the receiving audience. if it were just a branding issue it'd have been solved long ago.

See it's Good Times all over this post.

i LOVE 'right on'. i think we need to revive it.

as in 'the Blacks think.......'

Like I'm watching a live taping of Good Times.

basically that good feeling when you see Shaka Zulu on TV or you see a picture of Harriet Tubman
or a little black girl with beads and plaits in her hair... hearing "black" activates that part of my brain first.

It makes my heart swell. I think it always will.

But in our current climate especially, it's followed by a somber remembering of my anger and a fierce feeling of protectiveness.

I think its an amazing powerful word... because of that it can be used to wield negative power association...

just wondering if we can take control of the messaging... not just everyday but the talking head black people as well..