She's four. And as much as she knows that her Dad works hard, and mommy is now now working hard...I didn't want to take away her belief in Santa Claus. Given our world today, I have no problem with letting her believe in Santa Claus.

So we sat down to write the letter. She wanted to write it herself. So, I wrote Dear Santa, and let her have at it. She asked me how to spell certain words....

Words do not do this justice...

https://mobile.twitter.com/bjampy/status/805138338348863489/photo/1

Things make everything wonderful. The love I have for my kids is insane, it almost hurts.

Enjoy your princess!

sIf there is a Santa, she/we want it to be Black Santa but the chances of that are slim based on all these images.

She is 1 so maybe we can get a head start

I can't say I ever believed in Santa cause once the Steel Mills closed that fat man bounced... and the stress on my moms face when I talked about presents prolly gave it away.

I'm curious what people think is damaging about the Santa myth. Is it just the racial angle or something more? Our mall had a black santa last year....our 5 year old didn't notice or care. I don't know....I feel like we sometimes try to do too much about race with kids under 5. Obviously we talk about race with our 10 year old....but our 5 year old is pretty much oblivious about race. We wait until the child actually starts asking about it before we talk to them. I have a friend who is SO pro-active about race with his 3 year old and my SO and I kinda roll our eyes. I think it's silly of him to think that he's actually getting anything accomplished. And it really seems like a virtue-signalling thing....like he's doing it because it makes him LOOK like a good parent. He always kind of brags about it too....making sure everyone knows that he teaches his three year old to be woke. Toddlers simply don't care and we've agreed that we think my friend might be doing a disservice to his kid. It's just useless to try to 'build awareness' at that age. You're just gonna confuse them or worse, scare them. It's like teaching a toddler about the possibility of nuclear war. What benefit comes from that? They will learn about it when they need to....in the meantime...let them enjoy their innocence.

We don't really play up the Santa thing. The gifts just have names on them without a 'from'. But if our youngest mentions Santa then we just play along and kinda follow his lead. We don't present the myth to him or teach him who santa is....we just kinda go along with whatever he says or whatever impression he gets from the cartoons or his school friends. 'Did these presents come from Santa?'...yah sure they did. "Did he use magic?'....yah, I think he DID use magic.

We don't.
Your kid doesn't have to care now or ever really.
Our kids do.
They are bombarded with white goodness and superiority from the minute they are conscious of the visuals that surround them.
We have to care. We have to find every bit of balance we can, even if we have to fabricate it from a fabrication.

"Get ready....for your blessing....."

I understand that they have to be prepared to deal with experiences of racism. I just don't think it's necessary or beneficial to start that process with kids under 5.

the color they drew your s/o? If they did, then you have to counter the bs they're already receiving.

So our 5 year old is a REALLY good artist. It's definitely one of his defining skill-sets. And yes...when he draws pictures of our family he uses a different color for me and my bio-daughter (peach) than he does for his brother, sister and mom (brown). He also uses yellow for my bio-daughter's blond hair and black for his mom's hair. Are you suggesting this is problematic? I'm confused. I hope my tone is appropriate....not offended or anything like that. Beyond race....he's just really particular about colors when he draws. Like if he draws our car it has to be the same color as our actual car.

race as evidence by the drawings. I'm not disagreeing that kids want to create accurate depictions of their surroundings. If they see a green car they draw a green car, nothing to see here; yet, they aren't being bombarded with negative representations of green cars. They are, however, being bombarded with negative representations of Black folks.

I think folks are saying why take the risk of them internalizing those negative representations that will lead to negative generalizations; offer some balance...even at five.

The issue isn't about teaching your child about race at an early age, it's about how to balance the bombardment of white imagery and lack of Black imagery. The debate legs is talking about likely pivots around
a. Do we even bring Santa into play
b. If we Do bring Santa into play, do we want him to be a Black Santa or a White Santa? Or both?
c. HOW do we balance it so that this isn't just another example of white male being the sole bearer of happiness around this time of year ? ie, white Jesus, white Mary, white wisemen, white snow, white christmas....yada yada yada...




"Get ready....for your blessing....."

Yeah...I've been thinking about it this morning. Like say for instance when we took our toddler to the black santa last year at the mall and he said 'That's not Santa, Santa is white!'. Yah...that would kinda set off some alarm bells and discomfort...might make me think that his belief in the mythology is problematic. (as an aside, I haven't watched that CNN clip with the white lady complaining about black santas in awhile...goddamn i laughed my ass off when i first seen it)

Also...the 'black pete' thing I assume you're aware of? I would definitely interfere if someone or a cartoon or something like that presented that part of the mythology to my kid.

After some thought...I'd say that the race angle is definitely the most legitimate reason to not participate in the Santa thing...like you said, further entrenching the white goodness/savior thing. At the same time...heroes in a society usually reflect the majority and there isn't necessarily something sinister about that. As long as there are alternatives available (ie black santas, black dolls, black superheroes, black storybooks) then it's not something particularly high on my radar. I would argue we have made significant strides in this area culturally compared to when I was growing up (the 80's). My kids love Will Smith. I don't think there was a Will Smith equivalent 30 years ago. The friend I was referring to earlier will not read ANY storybooks that depict white people which I suppose he could claim he's just trying to combat all the surrounding images....ie they are bound to get their white image quota by their surroundings. I don't know....we believe in having a little bit of everything in our house. We DO monitor things to make sure there's diversity in what we expose them to...but we also try not to interfere in a "No you can't play with that white doll' type of way. I think there's a danger of that type of interference back-firing too. My SO was raised that way...her mom was a black nationalist so she's kinda sensitive about people who she thinks are over-doing it.

I was asking if Legs subscribed to the anti-santa stuff that isn't race-based. There's white people who actively kill the santa myth for their kids for non-racial reasons. Like the OP alluded to....something like 'my kids are gonna know that I work hard to provide these things and I should get the credit for that in their minds'. That's a little silly to me....that we would ruin their fun so that we get the credit. A little over-wrought imo.

There's also the 'I don't lie to my children' which I also think is silly. For one, we SHOULD lie to our kids. I mean...take it to it's logical extreme....'Daddy, why do you lock the bedroom door sometimes?' You get the picture. There's other reasons too...they all seem to be virtue-signalling 'I'm a special snowflake parent' type thing.

All that being said...I don't think it's really deep if someone decides not to do the Santa thing. There's people who think kids are being deprived by those who don't take part and that's ridiculously melodramatic as well.

Apologies to Tiggerific for kinda hijacking a cute kid post. The letter is totally cute and adorable.

whether you want to believe it or not. You are white so of course you don't see the big deal

It won't be a popular opinion here....but I really don't think my 5 year old is bombarded by exclusively white images and negative stereotypes of black people. His cartoons are not like the cartoons of our childhood. There is a clear attempt to provide diversity nowadays and I DO think that's a big deal. I think the academic liberal movements in the 90's that were characterized as being 'politically correct' have had a positive impact. I'm much more concerned with what my 10 year old sees because I think those arguments have more validity as he begins to get exposed to music videos and more adult-orientated movies/shows. I honestly don't think there's any stereotypes or race-exclusion in my 5 year old's media whereas I do think those things (particularly the stereotypes) exist in my 10 year old's media.

The image problems with Jesus and Santa aren't comparable imo. The white Jesus image has been falsified and I wouldn't put it on our living room wall. Santa's image can't be falsified and he's on the advent calendar on our fridge. We also have a black santa doll and like I said, our kid visited a black santa last year. A society in which white people are a majority is going to have fictional characters and mythologies who look like white people. I don't think there's anything particularly sinister about that. However, when those fictional characters and mythologies do not accurately represent the population and become too one-sided...parents should interfere to make sure their kids can see themselves in their surroundings. I'm pretty confidant that my 5 year old IS seeing himself in his media because kids stuff has really improved. I know this....I would have interfered with what he's exposed to alot more during the 80's.

Bruh, look at American news. Cops shooting Black folk who are running away from them because they are "terrified." The reason is due to images they have seen on TV.

It's real frustrating for Black parents to bust their ass to get presents and a white santa is getting the credit.

You keep talking about the Black Santa at the mall. That shit is a big deal of frustration for some folks bruh.

The movie Hunger Games. When the little girl was Black in the first movie the internet lost their damn minds. They were fans of the fans of the character but disappointed when she was Black.

Why is that?

>Bruh, look at American news. Cops shooting Black folk who are
>running away from them because they are "terrified." The
>reason is due to images they have seen on TV.
>

>The movie Hunger Games. When the little girl was Black in the
>first movie the internet lost their damn minds. They were fans
>of the fans of the character but disappointed when she was
>Black.
>
>Why is that?

>>You keep talking about the Black Santa at the mall. That shit
>is a big deal of frustration for some folks bruh.

See....of course those are issues that I would address with my 10 year old as he was getting exposed to them. I wouldn't be parenting if I didn't. If someone complained about the white santa in the mall and he overheard them he might ask 'why don't they like the black santa?'.....then of course, it's time to have a talk. Same thing with those other scenarios you talked about. Tough talks but they are necessary. But he's old enough for those talks to be constructive and even though they're tough....it's the job of the parent to find a way to prepare them for those realities. And there's a clear benefit. If you execute the talk successfully, a ten year old child will walk away with a little less innocence but also with some preparation to correctly identify racism and possibly some guidance in how to respond.

What I'm saying is that for kids under 5? I really don't think those talks are constructive yet. Is the 5 year old gonna walk away from the talk being more prepared to identify and respond to racism? I would say no. The fact is he simply doesn't ask about those things and I think he's just too young to kind of pick up on that stuff. And I really don't want to instigate those talks at that age before he even demonstrates that he can sense it in the first place. That's when I think you run the risk of tainting his innocence unnecessarily. So our guideline is to begin discussing those realities when he is old enough to sense them. I guess what I'm saying is that I think it's best to kind of shield your child from those realities when they're still that young. In the same way that I would kind of dodge him a bit if he asked 'What is nuclear war?'. How could I possibly answer that question honestly to a 5 year old that will positively impact his development? The only outcome is that it will scare the shit outta him. And I don't see the benefit of prematurely introducing those concepts and threats if he's not even sensing they exist yet.

He knows when your awake
He knows if you been bad or good
So be good for goodness sake...

Kids writing letter and leaving cookies to a guy who hits us every house in one night.

He is definitely seen as a magical savior to kids.

This is why we are having the debate and more than likely will have a Black Santa. We have to make sure our kid doesn't fall into the white hype subliminals America tries to throw in our child's faces.

So the fewer lies we cling to or learn the better. Might as well start with the easy ones i.e., santa, the Easter bunny, liberty and justice for all, etc.

Maybe it's different out your way

I'll admit that my hubby and I also had this debate. But its hard to keep the kids knowledge of Santa away from your kid when they are bombarded with images and talk about him. So, you are basically forced to make a decision. Usually around the time when they start talking and hanging with other kids, especially in school, you get bombarded with Santa. So...we just went with it. We didn't want her to be one of those kids who go to school and destroy all the other little kids belief in Santa.

> We didn't want her to be one of those kids
>who go to school and destroy all the other little kids belief
>in Santa.
>
>

people just.don't.get.

her penmanship is lovely!

My plan is to explain to her that when it comes to Santa, he's magic and that he can be any color he wants to be. And when he delivers gifts, he can change to the color of the family inside the house. I figure if we are going to go with the Santa myth, might as well go all the way. I also plan to explain that most of the Santas that you see at the malls aren't the "real Santa" they are just Santa's helpers. That's how he can be in so many places at once.

And so sometimes you may see a black Santa, other times you may see a white Santa. Santa's skin color doesn't matter. What matters is the goodness in people and the love in their hearts.

was wondering how that's pronounced......

She is THE Zoe (zo-e)...

Which I found hilarious!!! Love that kid. :)

They gonna learn the real deal winter solstice traditions.


Uh uh...no siree...

Like teach kids about the solstice,earths orbit, and whatever constellations are out then oh and where the idea of Saturn/Satan/Santa comes from

because she found out Santa wasn't real at school.

How in the hell...

Last thing I'm trying to do is help them out with some fantasy about a white guy bringing all the gifts.

My wife and I aren't letting any white man get credit for our work.

When my kids get a gift they'll know it was a result of their parents hard work and dedication.

I'm not raising kids who have any kind of impression there's shit out there for free.

when other people's kids (or my young relatives) bring up Santa Claus, I'm pretty non-committal. I go with whatever they think. Meaning, I don't tell them there is or isn't a Santa, because that's not my place. If I had kids, I'd let them believe in Santa Claus (within reason), because that's the way I grew up.

BUT I will say this. Even as a kid, I kinda had the image of Santa Claus being Black for several reasons:

Most of the decorations in our house had no people in 'em (not sure if this was by design, or a coincidence)
I figured, I lived in the 'Hood, so naturally it HAD to be a brother to come to our house.
My Dad always played MoTown/Soul Xmas songs, so it seemed like Xmas was pretty much a Black thing anyway.

Now, obviously, I saw white Santas growing up, but in MY mind he was just a Santa Claus for the kids on the other side of town ( Kinda like how being a Mailman works. Ridiculous, I know. But fuck it. I was 5 years old...)

So yeah. If kid wants to believe in Santa Claus, personally I see no harm in it. I never bothered to play up (or down) the Race part of it.

(yes, i know, wypipo shit)

good gracious, i hate that shit. i could kill my mom for getting my son one last year. my GOD it's all he talks about. he's gonna feel like such a dumbass when he realizes the damn thing is not real. i honestly can't believe he thinks it's real. he's smarter than that, damnit Haha. i'm really pretty against it, but i'm not that upset about it to be dick. he's in public school now so i don't think there are as many kids in his class that have one. last year in pre-school everybody did so ya kinda don't want your kid being left out. and as dumb as Santa and this cot damn elf are, it's fun for the kid so i really don't see much harm. i believed in Santa for a while and certainly don't think it does any long term damage.

oh to be a kid again and have such wonderment....

I know what it is physically but what's it stand for?

Dammit I need to find a hustle like this. One that makes a grip for a season then spend the rest of the year throwing shit against the wall to come up with some new ideas for these suckers.. errr consumers.

so the premise is, this elf "comes to life" after you read the book that goes with it and take it out of the box. the kid's gotta name it and all that (my son named his Tito haha). so he hangs out all day and keeps an eye on the kid to make sure he/she is being good, then at night reports back to the North Pole. he comes back by morning and is in a different spot every day.

such a pain in the ass. i forget to move it more often than i remember. my wife has been moving it in the morning since she gets up before anyone else. real talk, as soon as his eyes open in the morning he's curious about where Tito moved to. funny thing, though, he kinda gets freaked out if we/someone moves it during the day while he's in the house Haha.

the other caveat is, the kid isn't allowed to touch the elf or it will lose it's magic or some shit like that. if he happens to fall, the grownup can pick him up and place him back and everything is still intact Haha.

again, such a pain in the ass. but he gets so excited about that shit so *shrugs*.

i'll buy whoever invented that a drank!


"Get ready....for your blessing....."

like for real, throughout the year when we're eating dinner or whatever and talk about there not being any other girls in the house besides mommy, cot damn Tito gets included in the boys count. of course so does the beta fish, and the hermit crab is a female so mommy gets that ally Haha.

my wife says "you got the cat, he's a boy"

that nigga ain't got no balls man... he don't count.

she says it with a serious face too cause she knows I hate hearing it. That nigga could die tomorrow. He fucked up a perfectly good leather couch.

>my wife says "you got the cat, he's a boy"
>
>that nigga ain't got no balls man... he don't count.
>
>she says it with a serious face too cause she knows I hate
>hearing it. That nigga could die tomorrow. He fucked up a
>perfectly good leather couch.


dude, i laughed out loud. having boys is great. my friends with girls say having girls is great, but i'm cool with 2 boys. cute, sweet little girls grow up to be middle school girls. i have enough experience with them to know i don't really want one in my house Haha.

i'm mostly kidding, girls are pretty awesome too. middle school boys are also a pain in the ass and usually smell worse Haha.

all our fam that comes to visit keep saying she, her...

they know it's a boy but cats are so damn feminine acting.

move on its own...i was freaked out.

bless whoever came up with that and bless gullible ass kids lol.

man, i've literally woken up in the middle of the night and realized the the cot damn elf wasn't moved and got up out of bed to put him somewhere else. one time last year i left him chillin' on the closet door basketball hoop for a couple days. kid came down and saw he was still there and that's when i realized i had forgotten haha. i said some shit like, man he must really like chillin' there.

nah, it's not all bad, but i could honestly do without. the kid thinks it's fun, so whatever. and yes, bless the gullible ass kids. it's kinda funny to witness.

Mommy wants to work the Santa myth.

We collectively told her that you tell Santa what you want and he lets Mommy and Daddy know what you want and whether or not you "earned" the things you want.

She gets her two main WANTS from Santa and everything else from mommy & daddy and the rest of the fam.

Like wow...
I really feel like this struggle primarily affects Black folks...and that fact alone is just all kinds of messed up. We can't even enjoy and participate in mundane holiday shit like this without very pertinent nuances fcking it up...


"Get ready....for your blessing....."

more than likely you make good money.

Cause I can't see any kid believing in Santa in a broke ass household.

Not after watching these TV shows, seeing all the gifts under the tree in cartoons and shit.

It's actually a good problem IMO.

without Santa

i don't think that decision has anything to do with the kids' experiences. kids will enjoy however they learn to celebrate whatever holidays you celebrate.

i would be more concerned about my kid going to a school/daycare/nursery where there are no children who don't believe in Santa.

Is it an issue of there not being any diversity in regards to the holidays being celebrated this time of year?

and have lived in large cities in and outside of the US most of my life

i can't imagine why i would be in a place where there are only Christians and then on top of that only Christians who have their kids believe in Santa Claus. i wouldn't choose for my kids to grow up in that type of homogenous environment unless I had to.

i think it's the parents who make more out of it than it is. if your kid doesn't believe in Santa, it's not that difficult to tell them to respect others' traditions just as you would any kid who is of another faith. unless your kid is mean or a missionary it shouldn't be an issue...

i dont play around with that
it's hard
but not on my watch.

i have one year left to address it
he knows Christmas and he knows Kwanzaa
he doesn't get the concept of gifts yet for those holidays or for birthdays
he doesn't really expect anything except for a birthday party
i'd like to keep that for as long as possible