but get worse? How will middle America react then? A month ago, quiet as kept, 1.6 million jobs just got their termination notice in the next five years with one truck ride.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/25/technology/otto-budweiser-self-driving-truck/

And that's just trucking jobs; we aint talking taxis and public transportation, middle management computer automation etc.

I dont think we will see a mandatory living wage in my lifetime, and these job losses ain't gonna come back. What happens in that in between space? You figure trump can just blame Obama for 8 years and get a pass...but that anger is only going to get worse...

no party can bring back jobs yo

we can't compete with powerful countries with laughable labor standards...

it's just not possible...blue collars bout to turn extremely black and they are gonna still shirk their own parts in it

Like the things that would ease the pain; focus on social services, just went out of the window. They've found a way to continously vote against their self interest so even politically they wont find any answers.

There was an American Life episode abou a town that basically eased into an above board disability scam...that after the jobs left they started getting those checks which became the main revenue in the town and doctors kept on rubber stamping their illnesses. So effective they got their welfare cake and got to eat it too...this aint gonna work on a national level. The future is scary

...so many things he promised but can't deliver on.... will he do the customary "give me 4 more years"?

what happens when you basically get a Republican led Congress and White house and these trump supporters finally realize that things have gotten worse for them? Will they try and blame Obama?? it's gonna be an interesting 4 years....

And double down.

They will give him that chance. He will place blame any place he can.

I felt he would get 4 based on what I was seeing and I live in Chicago. I believe he will get 8 now. I want to be wrong.

...swear he'll fix all the jacked up stuff that happens during his presidency that he'll blame on someone else if they give him more time..... he might even do what Bush Sr did and decide no to run again after 4 years of being tied down by the presidency

funny thing is, once you consider how traditionally scared American voters make really bad decisions, his election and possible reelection make sense...

... he might even do what Bush Sr did and
>decide no to run again after 4 years of being tied down by the
>presidency
>

Huh ?

Yeah, that's wrong. Bush Sr got whooped by Clinton. Lyndon Johnson was the last but he had an extra 2 years from Kennedy.

Dumb motherfuckers.

Curfews, and an expansion of prisons and the prison economy

That or there will be unprecedented growth in new energy technology and infrastructure.

have their scapegoat

^^

Lets say she does somehow make it so Apple has to manufacture here, then what?

No one is going to work for that low amount of money.

So prices go up? Paying double/triple/whatever for an Iphone?

Inflation goes up?

How do these people honestly think those long lost job are going to come back.

but gotdammit it would be glorious if companies were forced to manufacture here and companies stopped giving golden parachutes to CEO's and 1000% pay raises every year.

This won't happen but I wish it would.

The whole idea behind Trump winning is putting America first. Now that's prolly impossible but maybe it's time for us to stop caring maiming so much shit on the cheap due to outsourcing.

I'm mad... this post is a rant about what I wish would happen but we all know it's shrugs and oh wells.

And you'll work there with no minimum wage. Or because you're in prison.

The idea of large scale prison labor will be brought into the conversation withing the first year.

>The idea of large scale prison labor will be brought into the
>conversation withing the first year.

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/markets/corrections-corp-geo-group-prison-stocks-surge-trump-win-n681661

they stay in the country, I assume.

Considering Repubs are so anti-regulation, I highly doubt the penalty route would work.

The Illegals for taking away all the imaginary jobs.

The Blacks just because 'Murica.

yeah......this is where I'm at. The Blacks, Muslims, Brown to dark skinned illegals, the poor........alladat.

Trump will need an extra 4 years to fix what Obama 'broke'.

Damn near the day Obama took office people were saying HE was president thus the recession was HIS problem and there were NO excuses.

So they'll just continue to spit that canned line.

>Damn near the day Obama took office people were saying HE was
>president thus the recession was HIS problem and there were NO
>excuses.

Homie, that shit started BEFORE he took office.

Like by late November 2008, the economy had started to recede and on Fox News they were branding it "Obama's recession."

In January 2009, BEFORE he got into office, the GOP was already advertising "Obama's honeymoon is already over."

The hubby and I had a convo about this. Black Murica...listen up:

The reason why Trump won was because of this. They think that Trump is going to bring back the type of jobs of old. No need for a college education, blue collar jobs. What they don't realize is that we are in a new age. A digital age. Now there will be some infrastructure blue collar jobs...but you are still going to need more education to do them. So all those old white men with no high school diploma who think they are going to make plenty of money under a Trump presidency are blind to the real.

He's already having conversations with big business to bring jobs back. That was happening before he got the nomination. So if I were you, I would be pushing my kids towards stem based jobs. That's where the money is. Now there will be manufacturing jobs, but you still have to have the engineering and technical knowledge.

And if you wanna know how Trump was able to shock the world.

Two words:

Data Science.

😏

The primaries had more GOP voters than Dem voters.

Folks thought it was because Hillary had it locked under but that wasn't the case. Remember these same folks wanted Bernie to concede so she could focus on the general.

Everyone made excuses for all those GOP votes and thought a bunch of them would stay home because it was Trump. Unfortunately the Dems ran the one candidate who could unite the GOP base.

as far as jobs coming back... I doubt it.

he's going to have to solve the whole h1b thing first though :)
it's a booming business. i would love to know how he's going
to tackle that because he waffled on it in the past.

privately there's no way trump as a business owner would advocate jeopardizing net margins and EBITDA by paying an american developer/techie 2x what an indian cat makes (the latter who ain't gonna rock the boat during the pursuit of dat green card).

>So if I were you, I would be pushing my kids towards stem
>based jobs. That's where the money is. Now there will be
>manufacturing jobs, but you still have to have the engineering
>and technical knowledge.
>
>And if you wanna know how Trump was able to shock the world.
>
>Two words:
>
>Data Science.

I cannot stress to you how bad it is right now in the "T" and "E" in STEM. Pick up the phone to call Cisco, Fortinet, or any other networking hardware company and chances are you're gonna get Kumar, Rajesh, or Pajeet on the phone. IT shops across the country have more H1B Indians, Chinese, or what have you than they do Black workers. SAS and SAP are pretty much dominated by H1B's, and that's where SERIOUS money is at (an SAP or SAS consultant can easily bill $200-$250/hr for their work); they're outsourcing talent while Americans with degrees, certifications, and experience are in the unemployment or welfare line. Tech companies are sponsoring H1B's for some of everything while American SE's, EE's, and ME's are serving coffee at Satrbucks.

I'm all but closing shop on my consulting business. I had a halfway decent 2.5 year run, but it's time to realize that my already absurdly low rate simply can't compete against overseas freelancers that are charging $5-$6/hr for the same stuff I do. I started out strong, but when my main client had to cut my hours I found it hard as shit to get work because my bargain basement rate (for an American) wasn't low enough. The one client I'm keeping just throws me stuff on occasion so maybe I'll get 10-15hrs a month out of him; enough for a couple of dates with the wife every month.

I start my new job in two weeks, right after Thanksgiving.

There is just nothing to replace them with. There is no new industry that can be protected from globalization and automation without a several radical technological innovations. Even that won't help if the 3rd world remains on slave wages. The only hope we have to stem the tide is unionize the service sector rapidly. Retail workers and waitresses need to be the new long shore men.
We need to accept automation, lower the cost and start moving toward a minimum income.


___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

And they'll still vote to re-elect him.

they'd got empty promises every cycle from both sides, so they figure why not this guy? When all the manufacturing jobs don't return, at least they have a president who seems to understand their fear of brown people and hatred of PC. The same way Obama couldn't accomplish everything we want a lot of us supporters can listen to him talk and we know he gets it. That's how they feel about Trump.

Unless we really start to train the rust belt to perform new skills, then we will see more dissatisfaction.

Basic Income is the only answer
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/elon-musk-universal-income-robots-ai-tesla-spacex-a7402556.html

http://basicincome.org/basic-income/

http://jalopnik.com/elon-musk-is-a-jerk-that-once-fired-his-assistant-of-12-1797699824

Elon Musk is a busy billionaire who you might imagine has a lot of people working for him to keep all of his various projects afloat, but Business Insider brought up an anecdote from a biography of Musk today about how he once fired his long-time assistant for asking for a raise. And that’s not all!

Look, obviously being the super rich guy behind some of the most influential American companies in recent history is going to make you feel important and probably turn into kind of a jerk. But this anecdote is almost something else, so here it is, as summarized by Business Insider from Musk’s biography, Elon Musk: Tesla, SpaceX, and the Quest for a Fantastic Future, by author Ashlee Vance:

According to Vance, the assistant, Mary Beth Brown, asked Musk for a significant raise after she’d been working with him for 12 years. In response, Musk told Brown to take two weeks off, during which he would assume her responsibilities and see whether she was critical to his success.

When Brown returned, Musk told her he didn’t need her anymore.

Musk also told Vance that he offered Brown another position at the company but that she never returned to the office after that.
Now, of course, this is just an anecdote in a biography, so the telling of what happened may not be exactly as it actually happened. Does it sound like this is something Musk would do? Yeah. Does anyone think Musk can actually operate without an assistant? You probably shouldn’t.

But! After some brief digging to see if I could find something else, I found a Quora posting from the verified profile of Justine Musk, ex-wife of Elon, that practically doubles down on Mary Beth Brown’s story, as well as how insane it is to have any sort of relationship with Elon Musk:

Mary Beth Brown started working for Elon soon after we moved to LA twelve or thirteen years ago (Elon and I were still married then). MB was an exceptional and devoted employee of Elon’s and lovely to deal with on a personal level. She gave her life to the job — and to our family — and the news of her departure was a shock to me.

Apparently (according, I believe, to Ashlee Vance, who wrote the book on Elon), MB asked for a raise. E told her that if she was truly critical to SpaceX, it should not be able to operate in her absence (or something to that effect). He suggested a 3-week experiment to test this hypothesis/her worth. This reminds me of something similar he once said to me, many years ago, after I came back from a week’s visit with my family in Canada — that his life had operated quite smoothly in my absence. He was letting me know that I was an incompetent house manager. (He was not wrong.) So of the different stories I have heard behind MB’s departure from SpaceX, this is the one that resonates with me. (Although you would *never* use the word ‘incompetent’ in association with MB!)

Wherever MB is and whatever she is doing, I hope her life is fabulous. She and I have not always been on the same side, but I have — and will always have — tremendous respect for that remarkable woman.
So, Elon Musk likes to tell everyone in his life how much he doesn’t need them. What a sick son of a bitch. And hey! You’re a fucking billionaire! Pay your assistant what they deserve, in both money and respect! And maybe respect your wife a little more! What an insane little world Elon seems to place himself in.

I’m also kind of bothered by how Business Insider framed its post around how you, the person with a bad boss, should avoid getting fired for asking for a pay raise that you valued yourself at. But that’s Business Insider, and the advice was just to basically reevaluate what’s wrong about yourself instead of what’s wrong with your boss.

Except a better social safety net, which they'll vote against out of white pride.

If a computer can do your job, it will do your job, and sooner than you think.

These people are struggling honestly, but unless they retrain or at least vote in theri own interest, it's a wrap. They've been left behind.

>Except a better social safety net, which they'll vote against
>out of white pride.
>
>If a computer can do your job, it will do your job, and sooner
>than you think.
>
>These people are struggling honestly, but unless they retrain
>or at least vote in theri own interest, it's a wrap. They've
>been left behind.

While automation is still the existential threat to manual labor, a lot of jobs left just because you could get someone else to turn a screw in China for a lot less than you could here bc of our high standard of living.

As real incomes have fallen over the decades here while they've risen overseas, you're bound to see more companies manufacturing here to reach American consumers just because it will make economic sense to do so. You're already seeing it with some big Chinese manufacturers.

I doubt anybody ever really explained to America's working class that this process would take decades, would likely leave a generation of workers in the cold, while enriching domestic corporations and foreign workers..... but they're not dumb, they can see what's happening with their own eyes and there's little trust that it's ultimately all for the better.

No- In a decade I think we'll no longer have a good supply of low-skill manufacturing jobs, because people will no longer be able to compete with cheap, highly-skilled robots.

>No- In a decade I think we'll no longer have a good supply of
>low-skill manufacturing jobs, because people will no longer be
>able to compete with cheap, highly-skilled robots.

I agree that the lowest skilled jobs are likely gone but there'll be "moderately skilled" jobs that are computer/robot aided but still need a human to complete or jobs to keep the robot assembly lines going. They won't be as plentiful as the low skilled jobs once were so manufacturing will permanently be a smaller and declining share of our economy but at least it'll be like that across much of the world.

We probably need to start thinking about what our economies and cultures are going to look like when a large group truly cannot work because there are not jobs for them. While a basic income is helpful, people still need to feel purpose in their lives and who knows what many will start doing if work isn't there to provide structure to their lives.

.

but was blocked by Congress from getting

like infrastructure spending and corporate tax reform to repatriate dollars being held overseas, but niggas aint go out in midterms so...

but yeah those manufacturing jobs aren't coming back though

...comin in, that motherfucker ain't bringing back good paying jobs, all he will be doing is giving tons of tax breaks for companies who will open up low waged jobs for a five or eight year period then jump ship back to another country, while half the jobs will still go to foreigners.

War got Bush a second term in spite of everything because, you know... you don't switch horses mid-race.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qABA0X6IzxU


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

>War got Bush a second term in spite of everything because,
>you know... you don't switch horses mid-race.

DING-DING-DING

Despite seeing it before, we will most definitely fall for it again.

It's not just the driving jobs...it's all the industry that surrounds them too. And automation is creeping into other industries as well. Having a job that can't be automated doesn't make you 'safe'. It's simple supply and demand. The demand for jobs will go up....wages (including your non-automated one) will go down.

There is only one answer. Universal basic income aka socialism. I loathed those who yearned fcr a Trump presidency that would kick-start the revolution....but that's just about all we're left with now if we want to be hopeful. Perhaps Trump's failings will help to deconstruct the American taboo of socialism and we can all grow up and build a proper civilized society. One that distributes the benefits of technological innovation to improve the quality of life rather than using innovation to feed a profit/loss cycle of free market capitalism.

from my experience with them and knowing R&D people from google...they will not be truly driverless for decades

Driverless cars will actually create more manufacturing jobs because of some of the testing and stringent certifications that are needed from real time/person results

for a driverless system to pass specs...the man hours that have to get put into the programming is on a factor of 10 times greater

plus whether they are driverless or not....a lot of people will not be able to use Uber or an driverless car do to remote/rural living

voted for him are still angry; but its gonna be a different kinda angry in a year or two.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGwjq85UMAA4qYF.jpg

Social programs. In many cases they're actively working against them. I enjoy being able to feed my family.

Automation won't go away just because we want to preserve jobs that a machine can do better and cheaper.


But it's also a great opportunity for society to embrace the easy abundance that's made possible through it, and for those of us with good motives to start pushing for a new social/economic paradigm that enables all ppl to reap the benefits of science and technology...and to embrace the development of said technology.

Beyond that, we won't have a choice, so I don't even have to argue. Eventually we'll hit whatever that tipping point is where the number of jobs left for humans doesn't allow our current "earn your keep" model to function anymore

Then it's either cannibalism, starvation, or a society that ensures these advancements in productivity provide for us all

You gonna crowdsource a viable living system for the people of this country that works around the government, moneyed interests, laws, law enforcement, court systems, and both a public and private prison system?

Good luck.

As a Black man in America let me douse any flame of belief you have on that notion.

The people have voices and that's about it.

Society isn't a conceptual entity that morphs around our best needs and wants. It's about money and power and whatever will sustain those longer for those that have it.

but to eventually deal with the fact that the old current model of how humans have their needs met (via earning it at a job) will fall apart, and there will eventually be a critical mass of millions upon millions of people with no way to make ends meet, no way to buy any of this overabundance of goods & services to keep the wealthy rich, no chill left whatsoever. Complete social breakdown is pretty much guaranteed at some point as a simple matter of physics, and we will be forced to change the model sooner or later

Good luck with that.

As long as America feeds its military, the people will be powerless. There's no tipping point that the most trained and at least well equipped fighting force on the planet can't squash.

But nah, we're headed towards an era of mass technological unemployment coupled with huge abundance and productivity potential, the old model just won't survive even if we all wanted it to. Very few people will be needed in the marketplace of labor. No getting around it.

This is the same country that let banks get out of control before the crash, lets the sugar industry lie while diabetes is an epidemic, let tobacco lie for years, does little to nothing about climate change and so on

I have little doubt that when shit gets dire dire, one of the major parties' response will be to say "elect more of us the other side caused this"

We are a country of inaction, only spurred by necessity, and even then it's limited response.

>but get worse? How will middle America react then?

they'll still be playing candy crush and loaded on oxy... while blaming dark people for their underachievement in life.

drivers won't go away, they'll just change what they do. someone still has to load and unload the trucks. someone still has to be responsible for the load and sign off on it. automation will reduce accidents and allow trucks to go farther that when a human is doing the driving, but there's more to trucking than just driving. some training no doubt will be involved to make the adjustment, but it's not going to put truckers out of work like that.

https://www.trucks.com/2017/06/14/self-driving-trucks-need-drivers/

Fam...robots are being developed to do all labor intensive jobs. They don't require salaries, don't call off and are easily replaceable. All that delivery confirmation will be done electronically (If I can scan my phone at a kiosk to get movie tix, a robot can do the same in person).

Human labor is becoming extinct. While our government bickers over sexist remarks, war threats and foreign improprieties of a silverspooned real estate con artist.

We are in at critical juncture in history where the world will drastically change in within 5-10yrs. How we approach this will be very detrimental to the future but I don't think we are prepared for what's coming.

They are computer chipping employees and skating on privacy laws.

It's crucial, right now. Those jobs are gone man.

>drivers won't go away, they'll just change what they do.
>someone still has to load and unload the trucks. someone
>still has to be responsible for the load and sign off on it.
>automation will reduce accidents and allow trucks to go
>farther that when a human is doing the driving, but there's
>more to trucking than just driving. some training no doubt
>will be involved to make the adjustment, but it's not going to
>put truckers out of work like that.
>
>https://www.trucks.com/2017/06/14/self-driving-trucks-need-drivers/
>
>

Some will be left behind. But overall, we'll be alright
We've been here many times before

Climate change is at a unique point in history
Technology has made global change and exchange faster than at any point in history.
There are limited resources (minerals and helium) for the next substantial leap in development.
And more people than ever are surviving birth due to bettter health care and awareness.

We've literally never been here as a planet.

There's not even a close approximation.

Remember the push for 2 free years of community college?

That was one of the keys

https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/eta/eta20161117


I really do think he was thinking ahead of all of this by trying to lay down some road

buuuuuuut on one hand there is a quite an anti intellectual front thats been growing

i dont mean to be reductionist

KEPT SAYING ROBOTS WILL TAKE THEM JOBS AWAY!!

SO IN ADDITION TO N. KOREA, I SAY WE GO TO WAR AGAINST THOSE DAMN ROBOTS I MEAN REALLY SHOW THEM WE MEAN BUSINESS

before they go full astromech.

as a consultant, my billable hours have been cut in half over the last two months... 'cause they brought in an indian cat --- red dot not feather --- for half the price on dat ole H1-B.

that's why the big boys and girs in tech have visited the white house a few times already. "please don't fuck up our busine$$ model, president trump."