I'm gonna assume the officers didn't see the dallas shield on the back. Either way, big doofuses.

http://www.mcclatchy-wires.com/wire_photos/s7m72u/picture89156457/ALTERNATES/FREE_1140/Police%20Shootings%20Officer%20Walkout.JPEG

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/12/us/wnba-minnesota-lynx-black-lives-matter-shirts/



(CNN)Four Minnesota Lynx players stood solemnly at a press conference, showing the Black Lives Matter T-shirts their team was about to wear on the court.

It wasn't long before the statement, according to the Minneapolis Star Tribune, made four off-duty officers walk off the job.
Members of the reigning WNBA champions wore the black-and-white shirts during warm-ups before a game Saturday against the Dallas Wings.

"Change starts with us. Justice & accountability," the front of the shirts said. On the back, the T-shirts showed the names of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile, two African-American men killed by police last week. It also displayed the Dallas Police Department emblem and the phrase, "Black Lives Matter."

"We as a nation can decide to stand up for what is right, no matter your race, background or social status," forward Maya Moore told reporters. "It is time that we take a deep look at our ability to be compassionate and empathetic to those suffering from the problems that are deep within our society. Again, this is a human issue, and we need to speak out for change together."


Union: Other officers may follow suit

The message reportedly didn't sit well with Minneapolis officers who were working off-duty, providing security at the event.
Four of them walked off the job that night and removed themselves from a list of officers working future games, according to the Star Tribune, which cited a local police union leader.
Lt. Bob Kroll, president of the Police Officers Federation of Minneapolis, did not immediately respond to a request from CNN for comment.

In an interview with the Star Tribune, he praised the officers' move, adding that others may follow suit.
Kroll criticized the Lynx players, the Star Tribune said.
"Rushing to judgment before the facts are in is unwarranted and reckless," he said, according to the newspaper.

In a statement Tuesday, Minneapolis police Chief Janeé Harteau said she understands how the off-duty officers felt but does not condone their actions.

"Although these officers were working on behalf of the Lynx, when wearing a Minneapolis Police uniform I expect all officers to adhere to our core values and to honor their oath of office," she said.
"Walking off the job and defaulting on their contractual obligation to provide a service to the Lynx does not conform to the expectations held by the public for the uniform these officers wear."

But police, Harteau said, deserve and need public support.
"While I do not condone the actions of the officers, I realize how every member of law enforcement throughout this country, including myself, is feeling right now," she said. "Everyone is hurting and we all need to find a way to come together. I am proud of our profession and the service our officers provide on a daily basis."

'Scared for my brothers and sisters'

The players told reporters that their shirts aimed to honor those who lost their lives in the past week, and to call for an end to racial profiling and senseless violence, CNN affiliate WCCO-TV in Minneapolis reported.



Moore praised the Dallas police for its training and other efforts to lower officer-involved shootings, according to WCCO.
"Racism and unjust phobic fear of black males and disregard of black females is very real," Lynx player Rebekkah Brunson said. "When we look at the facts, it's hard to deny that there's a real problem in our society. I'm scared for my brothers and sisters, my nieces and nephews, my future son or daughter."

In a statement Tuesday, the team said it had been made aware of the off-duty officers' concerns.

"While our players' message mourned the loss of life due to last week's shootings, we respect the right of those individual officers to express their own beliefs in their own way," the Lynx said. "At no time was the safety of our game in question as Target Center staffs extra personnel for each and every game. The Lynx and the entire WNBA have been saddened by the recent shootings in Dallas, Baton Rouge, and St. Paul. We continue to urge a constructive discussion about the issues raised by these tragedies."

Athletes and activism

It isn't the first time sports stars have added their voices to a chorus of protesters speaking out over police violence.
In 2014, after a New York grand jury decided not to indict an officer in the death of Eric Garner, athletes across the United States wore T-shirts emblazoned with Garner's last words, "I can't breathe."
Earlier that year, five players from the St. Louis Rams walked onto the football field with their palms in the air, demonstrating the "hands up, don't shoot" gesture that protesters used in demonstrations over the shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri.

"Get ready....for your blessing....."

IM NOT GONNA DO MY JOB AT THE BEYONCE CONCERT BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE SHE WAS MEAN TO ME, etc

either they'll be trigger happy or let a lot slide
they probably scared 😔

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

in the present tho
many aren't going to quit...

opposing sides point of view on some extremely complex issues we'll never get anywhere.

even when the available evidence points to unjustifiable force (or assist in covering up if involved). If other police can't look at a situation like Sterling or Garner and say 'that looks real bad', 'the officer should have handled that situation differently', 'that deadly force was unnecessary', just like they would if the killer was a non-police officer, than no real discussion can be had.

so we have cops defending or giving the benifit out dont even when they see video that shows the cop fucked up.

think same when the reality is cops are real people from diverse backgrounds and their individual opinions on this issue are equally diverse.

At the same time, most cops are not too quick to judge another's cops actions because while its easy to armchair quarterback a situation after the fact and say what a cop should or should've have done, but when you're in the heat of the moment sometimes things go bad. Most cops have been in intense situations where there was a potential threat and weapons were drawn and the majority of the time those situations are diffused without violence. But in the back their minds they all know that a minor detail such as a sudden move by a individual and the situation could have ended up a whole lot differently and that haunts them. They look at a lot of these other situations and say that could have easily been me.

Most cops don't put their uniform on in the morning say "I'm going to kill somebody today." They just want to get their shift in and go home to their families at the end of the night. But stuff happens, they get into those intense situations, adrenaline is flowing, they get scared and things go bad. People say "If you're scared then you shouldn't be a cop!" Well that's easy to say but I don't see the people saying that signing up to be cops. The reality is in most municipalities police officers are not that highly paid, so we get what we get. Most departments are understaffed as it is and when they do find money to hire some new police officers its equally as hard to find quality candidates. There aren't many Rhodes scholars signing up to be cops. Most of the rank and file cops don't even have undergrad degrees. But people expect them to be these super-intuitive & intellectual geniuses and they aren't.

Back to those intense situations, like I said the majority of them are diffused without violence. But sometimes they aren't. Sometimes police officers get hurt, sometimes they get killed. While it doesn't happen every day it does happen. As a police officer every day you go into work you walk past pictures on the wall of officers from your dept. who have died in the line of duty. In training those names are drilled into your head and you are told what not to do so you don't end up the same way.

And as for the whole, "why don't the good cops tell on the bad cops?", the problem is even "good cops", white, black, brown or yellow, occasionally do things that are illegal or not "by the book" even though it may be a good reason. It may be lying in a statement to get a legitimate bad guy off the streets that's about to walk on a technicality. They may let somebody slide that should be locked up but their a good person that's trying to turn their life around and has a family to support. Or you may have done something illegal and had to lie to cover your own ass. Everybody makes mistakes. Most cops worst fear is being locked up with the criminals they locked up. So when you start pointing out the dirty shit the "bad" cops are doing you open yourself up for everything you've ever done to be scrutinized. Its basically career suicide and you could be putting your life on the line as well.

>And as for the whole, "why don't the good cops tell on the bad
>cops?", the problem is even "good cops", white, black, brown
>or yellow, occasionally do things that are illegal or not "by
>the book" even though it may be a good reason. It may be lying
>in a statement to get a legitimate bad guy off the streets
>that's about to walk on a technicality. They may let somebody
>slide that should be locked up but their a good person that's
>trying to turn their life around and has a family to support.
>Or you may have done something illegal and had to lie to cover
>your own ass. Everybody makes mistakes. Most cops worst fear
>is being locked up with the criminals they locked up. So when
>you start pointing out the dirty shit the "bad" cops are doing
>you open yourself up for everything you've ever done to be
>scrutinized. Its basically career suicide and you could be
>putting your life on the line as well.
>
>

this is that bullshit we are talking about

if they are doing enough to be locked up then they aren't good cops.

>
>>And as for the whole, "why don't the good cops tell on the
>bad
>>cops?", the problem is even "good cops", white, black, brown
>>or yellow, occasionally do things that are illegal or not
>"by
>>the book" even though it may be a good reason. It may be
>lying
>>in a statement to get a legitimate bad guy off the streets
>>that's about to walk on a technicality. They may let
>somebody
>>slide that should be locked up but their a good person
>that's
>>trying to turn their life around and has a family to
>support.
>>Or you may have done something illegal and had to lie to
>cover
>>your own ass. Everybody makes mistakes. Most cops worst fear
>>is being locked up with the criminals they locked up. So
>when
>>you start pointing out the dirty shit the "bad" cops are
>doing
>>you open yourself up for everything you've ever done to be
>>scrutinized. Its basically career suicide and you could be
>>putting your life on the line as well.
>>
>>
>
>this is that bullshit we are talking about
>
>if they are doing enough to be locked up then they aren't good
>cops.

That's reality especially for cops working in high crime areas in major cities. I know the Wire was a tv show but it was based on real people and even the ones that were portrayed as "good cops" occasionally crossed the line. Sometimes they do what they have to do for a greater good. Or sometimes they get drawn in early. We've all seen in movies and tv shows how a young rookie cop is paired with an old veteran cop and they say "screw everything they taught you in the academy, this is how you survive in the streets". It starts with small stuff like falsifying statements and escalates into bigger things. They may get you to lie to cover somebody else's ass. They you get put in a bad situation and they lie for you to cover your ass. Then you're in, in some respects it is like a gang. When you decide something its not right and want to tell, they'll be like "remember when you did A, B, & C and what we did for you?" Its like an abusive, manipulative relationship.

and even that doesn't explain for areas like Fergusson where the police were basically extorting the town via tickets to subsidize their department. Shit like that is beyond corrupt -- it's straight up evil.

with a longstanding anti-black history? LOL AND I could still get killed by a cop AS A COP!

and if you get pulled over or stopped while on foot ask for the handcuffs I guess. Seems like you may be safer in the station.

That's what I'm doing anyway.

know how to diffuse a situation. etc.

>think same when the reality is cops are real people from
>diverse backgrounds and their individual opinions on this
>issue are equally diverse.
>
>At the same time, most cops are not too quick to judge
>another's cops actions because while its easy to armchair
>quarterback a situation after the fact and say what a cop
>should or should've have done, but when you're in the heat of
>the moment sometimes things go bad. Most cops have been in
>intense situations where there was a potential threat and
>weapons were drawn and the majority of the time those
>situations are diffused without violence. But in the back
>their minds they all know that a minor detail such as a sudden
>move by a individual and the situation could have ended up a
>whole lot differently and that haunts them. They look at a lot
>of these other situations and say that could have easily been
>me.

Do they show that same thought, benefit of the doubt, restraint in judgment when they are discussing the victim (dead black male's perspective or point of view)?

>
>Most cops don't put their uniform on in the morning say "I'm
>going to kill somebody today." They just want to get their
>shift in and go home to their families at the end of the
>night. But stuff happens, they get into those intense
>situations, adrenaline is flowing, they get scared and things
>go bad. People say "If you're scared then you shouldn't be a
>cop!" Well that's easy to say but I don't see the people
>saying that signing up to be cops.

1) So do those 'most cops' speak out or do anything about the minority of cops that do have bad thoughts, motives, actions, etc.

2) Being scared is a justification for taking someone's life? If a licensed gun owner killed a cop bc 'stuff happens, they get into those intense
situations, adrenaline is flowing, they get scared and things
go bad' would other officers and/or you cop pleas for the killer?

The reality is in most
>municipalities police officers are not that highly paid, so we
>get what we get. Most departments are understaffed as it is
>and when they do find money to hire some new police officers
>its equally as hard to find quality candidates. There aren't
>many Rhodes scholars signing up to be cops. Most of the rank
>and file cops don't even have undergrad degrees. But people
>expect them to be these super-intuitive & intellectual
>geniuses and they aren't.

I suppose that's fair. What does that have to do with when they kill someone unjustifiably? There are alot of dumb criminals and murderers out there. Do cops and you make excuse them for killing others bc they are dumb?
>
>Back to those intense situations, like I said the majority of
>them are diffused without violence. But sometimes they aren't.
>Sometimes police officers get hurt, sometimes they get killed.
>While it doesn't happen every day it does happen. As a police
>officer every day you go into work you walk past pictures on
>the wall of officers from your dept. who have died in the line
>of duty. In training those names are drilled into your head
>and you are told what not to do so you don't end up the same
>way.

What about when the officers don't follow their training? Like when they use illegal chokeholds(garner), tackling a non-violent suspect by a plainclothes officer(blake), beginning interaction with a possibly licensed citizen by wrestling them to the ground(sterling), lie and say the suspect pulled out his gun (sterling) do other cops or you talk about how they went against their training.

>
>And as for the whole, "why don't the good cops tell on the bad
>cops?", the problem is even "good cops", white, black, brown
>or yellow, occasionally do things that are illegal or not "by
>the book" even though it may be a good reason. It may be lying
>in a statement to get a legitimate bad guy off the streets
>that's about to walk on a technicality. They may let somebody
>slide that should be locked up but their a good person that's
>trying to turn their life around and has a family to support.
>Or you may have done something illegal and had to lie to cover
>your own ass. Everybody makes mistakes. Most cops worst fear
>is being locked up with the criminals they locked up. So when
>you start pointing out the dirty shit the "bad" cops are doing
>you open yourself up for everything you've ever done to be
>scrutinized. Its basically career suicide and you could be
>putting your life on the line as well.

So a cop may not do the right thing in reference to another cop taking an innocent person's life bc they have their own dirt they don't want uncovered? How is that helping the perspective i should have of a police officer?
>
>

>know how to diffuse a situation. etc.
>
>>think same when the reality is cops are real people from
>>diverse backgrounds and their individual opinions on this
>>issue are equally diverse.
>>
>>At the same time, most cops are not too quick to judge
>>another's cops actions because while its easy to armchair
>>quarterback a situation after the fact and say what a cop
>>should or should've have done, but when you're in the heat
>of
>>the moment sometimes things go bad. Most cops have been in
>>intense situations where there was a potential threat and
>>weapons were drawn and the majority of the time those
>>situations are diffused without violence. But in the back
>>their minds they all know that a minor detail such as a
>sudden
>>move by a individual and the situation could have ended up a
>>whole lot differently and that haunts them. They look at a
>lot
>>of these other situations and say that could have easily
>been
>>me.
>
>Do they show that same thought, benefit of the doubt,
>restraint in judgment when they are discussing the victim
>(dead black male's perspective or point of view)?
>
>>
>>Most cops don't put their uniform on in the morning say "I'm
>>going to kill somebody today." They just want to get their
>>shift in and go home to their families at the end of the
>>night. But stuff happens, they get into those intense
>>situations, adrenaline is flowing, they get scared and
>things
>>go bad. People say "If you're scared then you shouldn't be a
>>cop!" Well that's easy to say but I don't see the people
>>saying that signing up to be cops.
>
>1) So do those 'most cops' speak out or do anything about the
>minority of cops that do have bad thoughts, motives, actions,
>etc.
>
>2) Being scared is a justification for taking someone's life?
>If a licensed gun owner killed a cop bc 'stuff happens, they
>get into those intense
>situations, adrenaline is flowing, they get scared and things
>go bad' would other officers and/or you cop pleas for the
>killer?

I'm not justifying anything, I'm just saying what happens.

>The reality is in most
>>municipalities police officers are not that highly paid, so
>we
>>get what we get. Most departments are understaffed as it is
>>and when they do find money to hire some new police officers
>>its equally as hard to find quality candidates. There aren't
>>many Rhodes scholars signing up to be cops. Most of the rank
>>and file cops don't even have undergrad degrees. But people
>>expect them to be these super-intuitive & intellectual
>>geniuses and they aren't.
>
>I suppose that's fair. What does that have to do with when
>they kill someone unjustifiably? There are alot of dumb
>criminals and murderers out there. Do cops and you make excuse
>them for killing others bc they are dumb?

I'm not justifying anything, I'm just saying what happens.

>>
>>Back to those intense situations, like I said the majority
>of
>>them are diffused without violence. But sometimes they
>aren't.
>>Sometimes police officers get hurt, sometimes they get
>killed.
>>While it doesn't happen every day it does happen. As a
>police
>>officer every day you go into work you walk past pictures on
>>the wall of officers from your dept. who have died in the
>line
>>of duty. In training those names are drilled into your head
>>and you are told what not to do so you don't end up the same
>>way.
>
>What about when the officers don't follow their training? Like
>when they use illegal chokeholds(garner), tackling a
>non-violent suspect by a plainclothes officer(blake),
>beginning interaction with a possibly licensed citizen by
>wrestling them to the ground(sterling), lie and say the
>suspect pulled out his gun (sterling) do other cops or you
>talk about how they went against their training.

A police officer is like any other job, you people that try to do things the right way you have some screws up. You have people that are racists who intimated when they're in a confrontation with a large black mad and lose their shit. You have cowboys with an ego and something to prove. Like I said above, police officers are not necessarily the cream of the crop from society. A lot of them are ex-military guys looking for an Adrenalin. Some of them are people that couldn't get into the military for whatever reason so for them being a cop is next best thing.


>>
>>And as for the whole, "why don't the good cops tell on the
>bad
>>cops?", the problem is even "good cops", white, black, brown
>>or yellow, occasionally do things that are illegal or not
>"by
>>the book" even though it may be a good reason. It may be
>lying
>>in a statement to get a legitimate bad guy off the streets
>>that's about to walk on a technicality. They may let
>somebody
>>slide that should be locked up but their a good person
>that's
>>trying to turn their life around and has a family to
>support.
>>Or you may have done something illegal and had to lie to
>cover
>>your own ass. Everybody makes mistakes. Most cops worst fear
>>is being locked up with the criminals they locked up. So
>when
>>you start pointing out the dirty shit the "bad" cops are
>doing
>>you open yourself up for everything you've ever done to be
>>scrutinized. Its basically career suicide and you could be
>>putting your life on the line as well.
>
>So a cop may not do the right thing in reference to another
>cop taking an innocent person's life bc they have their own
>dirt they don't want uncovered? How is that helping the
>perspective i should have of a police officer?

It's hard to understand for some people when its not their livelihood and/or potentially their life on the line.

Cops don't snitch for some of the same reasons people in the hood don't snitch, because you still have to live/work there and fear retaliation.

>A police officer is like any other job, you people that try to do things the right way you have some screws up. You have people that are racists who intimated when they're in a confrontation with a large black mad and lose their shit. You have cowboys with an ego and something to prove. Like I said above, police officers are not necessarily the cream of the crop from society. A lot of them are ex-military guys looking for an Adrenalin. Some of them are people that couldn't get into the military for whatever reason so for them being a cop is next best thing.

Employees of other jobs get held accountable for their actions, especially if their actions results in the loss of an innocent life. In fact, BLM wants police officers to be treated like every other individual that takes a life unjustifiably.

this thing is very complex on multiple levels. Is that the cops fault or the people that should be holding them accountable?


>Employees of other jobs get held accountable for their
>actions, especially if their actions results in the loss of an
>innocent life. In fact, BLM wants police officers to be
>treated like every other individual that takes a life
>unjustifiably.

And I understand your point and reasons why 'good' cops don't take a stand against the bad ones, but why would anyone continue to want to be part of a group that willfully looks past the wrong deeds of others, especially when it results in the loss of innocent lives.

If you decide that thats what you want to do for whatever reason, you can't be upset if people want to lump you in with the really rotten apples when you attempt to turn a blind eye or only give the officer's the benefit of the doubt.

>And I understand your point and reasons why 'good' cops don't
>take a stand against the bad ones, but why would anyone
>continue to want to be part of a group that willfully looks
>past the wrong deeds of others, especially when it results in
>the loss of innocent lives.
>
>If you decide that thats what you want to do for whatever
>reason, you can't be upset if people want to lump you in with
>the really rotten apples when you attempt to turn a blind eye
>or only give the officer's the benefit of the doubt.

Again you're right, that's why a lot of people leave law enforcement but their spot will probably end up getting filled by some racist hung-ho cowboy. Change is going to have to come from the top.

as well.

But i guess what i'm missing is what different perspective do non-cops or BLM need to have in order for progress to be made? To understand that alot of cops aren't that smart or that they arent paid that well? How should that effect them wanting justice when someone is murdered?

>as well.
>
>But i guess what i'm missing is what different perspective do
>non-cops or BLM need to have in order for progress to be made?
>To understand that alot of cops aren't that smart or that they
>arent paid that well? How should that effect them wanting
>justice when someone is murdered?

Different people waving the BLM banner have different agendas.

Bottom line is people can "demand" whatever they want, they could March up and down the street every day, we can have a "race war", but where has that gotten us thus far?

what perspective do non-cops need to have in order for progress to be made?

To understand that alot of cops aren't that smart or that they arent paid that well? How should that effect them wanting justice when someone is murdered?

why is this so hard for you and cop lovers to understand?

How hard is it to pick out the "handful" of bad apples and get rid of them unless of course -- you don't give a shit.

have done the most dirt, that's how they got there in the first place.

You're not going to be cop in a major city for 20+ years and no crossed the line at least once or twice. You get to digging into other peoples shit they will start digging in yours. The police unions in a lot of major cities have a lot of power.

If a man can be executed in front of his family for being honest and following orders then there is no hope.

accountable, but actually doing that is easier said than done.

and no amount of prayer, marching, sermons, speeches, petitions, or violence is ever going to change that. So in reality the system doesn't change until white culture changes and ain't nobody got time for that.

but since it's broken I guess the gun manufacturers.

1. less fear.

cops charged w/violent offenses against civilians are typically acquitted after they raise self defense claiming they were afraid for their lives when they committed some violent act against a civilian. juries, judges and prosecutors too often agree w/the cops that their fear was reasonable and their act justified. meanwhile we civilians are stunned b/c we tend to disagree that the cop reasonably feared for his/her life at the time the cop acted violently. as an example - back in 2012 an unarmed man and woman were shot 137 times by Cleveland police after a car chase. one officer climbed on the hood of the car and fired 49 shots through the windshield after all other officers had stopped shooting. he was the only officer charged criminally. he was acquitted in part b/c the judge found that the officer feared for his life. i think that's absurd.

why are they so scared of us? we need to make them less scared of us. b/c their fear of us is costly. we know that this fear of us has existed for centuries - and it reaches far beyond police and police culture, of course. b/c the judges and jurors who agree w/these cops are usually civilians. they're scared of us too. outrageously so.

2. more protection for whistle blowers.

cops know which of their fellow officers are the 'bad' cops. as you said - too many officers are afraid to speak out against these 'bad' cops b/c of the likelihood of retribution. until that changes then the protection for the 'bad' cops will remain.

3. less war talk.

too many officers get pumped full of nonsense talk about the communities they SERVE being warzones. it becomes too easy for them to see the citizens they are duty bound to SERVE as enemy combatants. of course, there's little or no duty of any kind owed to an active enemy combatant in a war zone. if cops think we're at war w/them b/c their superiors and union leaders and fellow officers tell them so it becomes too easy for them to act against citizens combatively. it becomes too easy for them to forgo deescalation. i think that warmongering does cops a disservice as it pits them against us. it's gotta either go or at least be significantly ramped down.

>why are they so scared of us? we need to make them less
>scared of us. b/c their fear of us is costly.

Yep, but how do we do this?

>2. more protection for whistle blowers.
>
>cops know which of their fellow officers are the 'bad' cops.
>as you said - too many officers are afraid to speak out
>against these 'bad' cops b/c of the likelihood of retribution.
> until that changes then the protection for the 'bad' cops
>will remain.

Yep, but who's going to protect them? The corrupt chief? The corrupt prosecutor?

>3. less war talk.
>
>too many officers get pumped full of nonsense talk about the
>communities they SERVE being warzones. it becomes too easy
>for them to see the citizens they are duty bound to SERVE as
>enemy combatants. of course, there's little or no duty of any
>kind owed to an active enemy combatant in a war zone. if cops
>think we're at war w/them b/c their superiors and union
>leaders and fellow officers tell them so it becomes too easy
>for them to act against citizens combatively. it becomes too
>easy for them to forgo deescalation. i think that
>warmongering does cops a disservice as it pits them against
>us. it's gotta either go or at least be significantly ramped
>down.

Yep, but a lot of our communities ARE war zones. The cops see this every day when they're called to help scrape somebody's remains off the ground after they've been killed by someone else in the community. You see stuff like that every day you either go crazy or become desensitized.

We know the police will get off.

by another black man than a white police officer.

>We know the police will get off.

Who cares? either way I'm dead, if its a cop maybe my family will get some money out of it.

http://www.kmov.com/story/32373246/6-killed-6-injured-in-shootings-in-st-louis-over-fourth-of-july-weekend

Here is a warzone (You'll note the lack of amenities that I'm certain you still have access to despite the bombs and mortar fire)

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/15/12/2F5DBF1000000578-3360730-image-a-46_1450181263230.jpg

http://fox2now.com/2016/02/29/the-30-murder-capitals-in-the-u-s/

Maybe your community needs leaders? When are you going to turn in your application?

>>why are they so scared of us? we need to make them less
>>scared of us. b/c their fear of us is costly.
>
>Yep, but how do we do this?

education. we teach cops about the root of the fear of black ppl and show them that it's rooted in race prejudice dating back to the chattel slavery era.

>>2. more protection for whistle blowers.
>>
>>cops know which of their fellow officers are the 'bad' cops.
>
>>as you said - too many officers are afraid to speak out
>>against these 'bad' cops b/c of the likelihood of
>retribution.
>> until that changes then the protection for the 'bad' cops
>>will remain.
>
>Yep, but who's going to protect them? The corrupt chief? The
>corrupt prosecutor?

i don't assume all of those ppl are necessarily corrupt. but if they are then they get protection from federal agencies. maybe by having the Whistle Blower Protection Act extended to cover state, county and municipal police. or maybe the various states can create their own protection schemes where whistle blowers can file claims and if they're retaliated against then their departments would face consequences in state court - criminal or civil.

>Yep, but a lot of our communities ARE war zones.

no. no they are not. those communities are NOT war zones.

The cops see
>this every day when they're called to help scrape somebody's
>remains off the ground after they've been killed by someone
>else in the community.

so what? that's part of the job.

You see stuff like that every day you
>either go crazy or become desensitized.

then they should get out of the job.

Homie has racial-diabetes from drinking all of that damn kool aid.

>>>why are they so scared of us? we need to make them less
>>>scared of us. b/c their fear of us is costly.
>>
>>Yep, but how do we do this?
>
>education. we teach cops about the root of the fear of black
>ppl and show them that it's rooted in race prejudice dating
>back to the chattel slavery era.

do you honestly think the real hardcore racists are going care about any of that?

>
>>>2. more protection for whistle blowers.
>>>
>>>cops know which of their fellow officers are the 'bad'
>cops.
>>
>>>as you said - too many officers are afraid to speak out
>>>against these 'bad' cops b/c of the likelihood of
>>retribution.
>>> until that changes then the protection for the 'bad' cops
>>>will remain.
>>
>>Yep, but who's going to protect them? The corrupt chief? The
>>corrupt prosecutor?
>
>i don't assume all of those ppl are necessarily corrupt.

how do you think the cops are getting away with what they do?

>but
>if they are then they get protection from federal agencies.
>maybe by having the Whistle Blower Protection Act extended to
>cover state, county and municipal police. or maybe the
>various states can create their own protection schemes where
>whistle blowers can file claims and if they're retaliated
>against then their departments would face consequences in
>state court - criminal or civil.

Sounds good, but things like retaliation can be very difficult to prove.


>>Yep, but a lot of our communities ARE war zones.
>
>no. no they are not. those communities are NOT war zones.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-82-shot-14-killed-in-chicago-4th-of-july-weekend-shootings/


> The cops see
>>this every day when they're called to help scrape somebody's
>>remains off the ground after they've been killed by someone
>>else in the community.
>
>so what? that's part of the job.
>
> You see stuff like that every day you
>>either go crazy or become desensitized.
>
>then they should get out of the job.

and who's going to take their place? You?

>do you honestly think the real hardcore racists are going care
>about any of that?

I'm not talking about the 'real hardcore racists'. A cop doesn't have to be racist to harbor an unreasonable fear of black civilians. The hardcore racists should be drummed out of the force, period. The rest need to be taught to be mindful of the pervasiveness of unreasonable fear of the ppl they are bound to serve.

>>>>2. more protection for whistle blowers.
>>>>
>>>>cops know which of their fellow officers are the 'bad'
>>cops.
>>>
>>>>as you said - too many officers are afraid to speak out
>>>>against these 'bad' cops b/c of the likelihood of
>>>retribution.
>>>> until that changes then the protection for the 'bad' cops
>>>>will remain.
>>>
>>>Yep, but who's going to protect them? The corrupt chief?
>The
>>>corrupt prosecutor?
>>
>>i don't assume all of those ppl are necessarily corrupt.
>
>how do you think the cops are getting away with what they do?

They're not all corrupt. Plenty are corrupt.

>>but
>>if they are then they get protection from federal agencies.
>>maybe by having the Whistle Blower Protection Act extended
>to
>>cover state, county and municipal police. or maybe the
>>various states can create their own protection schemes where
>>whistle blowers can file claims and if they're retaliated
>>against then their departments would face consequences in
>>state court - criminal or civil.
>
>Sounds good, but things like retaliation can be very difficult
>to prove.

Yes that doesn't mean we just give up.
>
>>>Yep, but a lot of our communities ARE war zones.
>>
>>no. no they are not. those communities are NOT war zones.
>
>http://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-82-shot-14-killed-in-chicago-4th-of-july-weekend-shootings/

So? I live in Chicago. I have had shootings on my block - I have run from bullets. I don't live in a war zone. I live in a peaceful community where ppl like me get up and go to work everyday. There are kids playing on playgrounds. Ppl out walking dogs. Ppl sitting out at restaurants and cafes. Ppl shopping at local stores. Etc etc. it is NOT a war zone.
>
>
>> The cops see
>>>this every day when they're called to help scrape
>somebody's
>>>remains off the ground after they've been killed by someone
>>>else in the community.
>>
>>so what? that's part of the job.
>>
>> You see stuff like that every day you
>>>either go crazy or become desensitized.
>>
>>then they should get out of the job.
>
>and who's going to take their place? You?

Nope. I am not fit for the job and I have no interest. That doesn't mean that others who are similarly unfit should remain. If any cop can't handle the rigor of the job they should get out.

waiting for this other perspective you want us to see? you haven't answered that.

are never going to matter to THEM until they start mattering to US.

We are pushing each other off the planet at a record pace and the cops see that because they're the ones that are called to clean up afterwards.

So to them BLM is a joke.

It's similar to the n-word, black people use it all day with each other then get mad when a white person uses it. The white person is like, "you guys use it all the time, why can't I?"

Here is an almost 7 minute clip from a speech Louis Farrakhan gave in 2007 that is very relevant to what's going on right now. The best part comes in the last 90 seconds or so but it's important to watch the whole thing to get the full context of what he is saying...:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=644509865656289&id=365178373589441&refsrc=https%3A%2F%2Fm.facebook.com%2FOfficialMinisterFarrakhan%2Fvideos%2F644509865656289%2F

so it rings true that there are no good cops because they all support wrongdoing. Just like there are no good gang members for the exact same reason.

So when someone finally snaps and fights fire with fire it's not okay it's just what happens.

>so it rings true that there are no good cops because they all
>support wrongdoing. Just like there are no good gang members
>for the exact same reason.
>
>So when someone finally snaps and fights fire with fire it's
>not okay it's just what happens.

You got your weapons? You got your survival equipment? Or are you just popping shit online?

I'm not justifying anything, I'm just saying what happens. <-- I was just applying your logic to the reprisals that come the police's way.

So if things pop off so be it. It's been long overdue.

Cops carry guns and are given the authority to uphold the law if they break or violate that they are to be held to the same standard as everyone else. They are not the demi gods you wish them to be and I really, really, hope you have a ton of LEO in your family because you are riding for them way, way, too hard.

Black people and police do not, can not, and will not have the same relationship as whites do and it's okay to admit that.

perspective when all he did was give benefit of the doubt and excuses to cops who murder innocent civilians. He had nothing to say about the benefit of the doubt or pov of the dead victims.

>Cops carry guns and are given the authority to uphold the law
>if they break or violate that they are to be held to the same
>standard as everyone else. They are not the demi gods you wish
>them to be and I really, really, hope you have a ton of LEO in
>your family because you are riding for them way, way, too
>hard.
>
>Black people and police do not, can not, and will not have the
>same relationship as whites do and it's okay to admit that. Like I said above I'm not justifying anything or making excuses for anything I'm just explaining what the situation is.

There's zero hope of any type of resolution if both parties don't at least attempt to try to understand things from the other side.

And yes I do feel like I understand both sides, as a black man and also someone that has several family members and friends that work in law enforcement including having been in a relationship with female police officer I probably know as much as any non-officer can.

Contrary to popular belief on OKP being a police officer is not an easy job. Its also a job that, despite its importance, doesn't pay a lot in most areas so a lot of people don't want to do it. So you end up with a lot of people being police officers that have no business putting on a uniform.

Sometimes folks are dead wrong and the system and its apologist are just as wrong.

Isn't that what you want? So, proceed...

but not both at the same time.

So, again...help us to understand the other side with respect to Castile's shooting...

>So, again...help us to understand the other side with respect
>to Castile's shooting...

You had somebody in Falcon Heights, Minnesota that had no business being a police officer. Plain and simple.

some actual change could take place...not if we saw both sides.

>There's zero hope of any type of resolution if both parties
>don't at least attempt to try to understand things from the
>other side.

eh. the cops gotta get right first. they have the higher duty. b/c they get to restrict our liberty. they can seize us and our property. they can even take our lives. all w/o being held accountable even if they'd taken these actions illegally. so b/c of this they have more duty to get and act right than we do.

Its also a job that, despite its importance,
>doesn't pay a lot in most areas so a lot of people don't want
>to do it. So you end up with a lot of people being police
>officers that have no business putting on a uniform.

and? so what?

this doesn't excuse police misconduct.

cops who have no business putting on a uniform should be removed from the force. period.

if we need police that badly then maybe we should work to make the job more attractive to better qualified ppl.

but i don't think hiring cops w/higher IQs and better school transcripts is going to solve the problems w/police misconduct. smart ppl can be just corrupt as anyone else. the pervasive nature of corruption and the lack of accountability are the main problems and they won't be solved just by hiring higher pedigreed ppl as cops.

>if we need police that badly then maybe we should work to make
>the job more attractive to better qualified ppl.

I agree 100% with this but like everything else it comes down to money. Where is it going to come from?

>but i don't think hiring cops w/higher IQs and better school
>transcripts is going to solve the problems w/police
>misconduct. smart ppl can be just corrupt as anyone else.
>the pervasive nature of corruption and the lack of
>accountability are the main problems and they won't be solved
>just by hiring higher pedigreed ppl as cops.

I agree to a point but it's more that just book smarts but mental clarity. We all know scholarly people with multiple degrees that are crazy as hell. In the military in elite special forces as well as elite federal law enforcement mental evaluations are just as important if not more so that physical. You might know everything but how do you respond in a high stress situation. The dude that shot Tamir Rice had been fired from another dept because they felt like he wasn't mentally capable and he went right over to Cleveland and got hired. Cleveland PD never called to see why the other dept let him go.

>I agree to a point but it's more that just book smarts but
>mental clarity. We all know scholarly people with multiple
>degrees that are crazy as hell. In the military in elite
>special forces as well as elite federal law enforcement mental
>evaluations are just as important if not more so that
>physical.

sure but elite special forces and elite fedz also commit misconduct. and in some cases their misconduct results in great bodily harm or death.

You might know everything but how do you respond in
>a high stress situation. The dude that shot Tamir Rice had
>been fired from another dept because they felt like he wasn't
>mentally capable and he went right over to Cleveland and got
>hired. Cleveland PD never called to see why the other dept let
>him go.

that's a problem - bigger problem is that the officer was not held accountable in criminal court. neither was the department. until there's some accountability in criminal court individual officers and the departments that hire them have little incentive to change. there is some accountability in civil court as cities/states are ordered to pay out in police misconduct cases - but even that doesn't happen enough. i think w/more accountability in both criminal and civil court departments will have incentive to hire qualified officers and to root out the unqualified.

>
>that's a problem - bigger problem is that the officer was not
>held accountable in criminal court. neither was the
>department. until there's some accountability in criminal
>court individual officers and the departments that hire them
>have little incentive to change. there is some accountability
>in civil court as cities/states are ordered to pay out in
>police misconduct cases - but even that doesn't happen enough.
> i think w/more accountability in both criminal and civil
>court departments will have incentive to hire qualified
>officers and to root out the unqualified.
>

the St. Louis County prosecutor didn't really seek an indictment against Ferguson Officer Darren Wilson b/c he believed the officer reasonably feared for his life during his encounter w/unarmed teen Mike Brown. the prosecutor convinced the grand jury that the officer's fear was reasonable.

that must change - the fact that the officer was so scared of an unarmed teen that he used deadly force must change. the fact that the prosecutor agreed must change. the fact that more than a dozen grand jurors agreed must change. b/c that officer's fear was patently unreasonable.

Chicago Officer Van Dyke fired 16 shots at Laquan McDonald - several of those shots were fired after McDonald was already on the ground bleeding out. i expect the officer will say he was afraid when he fired those shots.

the Baton Rouge officer who killed Alton Sterling fired 2 to 4 shots into Alton after he was already bleeding out. i expect he'll claim he was scared.

this fear - it's unreasonable and it's deadly. but too often when officers make that claim they get support. it's too much.

i think we address it via education. we show the public (which includes police, prosecutors, judges and jurors) the root of this fear - which reaches all the way back to the chattel slavery era, of course. we show them that they don't have reason to fear us as much as they do. that the fear is somewhat absurd.

because if that happens they reject the information and perceive it as an attack. Then there's the constant media messaging showing black folks being killed or as villains in movies, tv shows, the news, etc.

That's of course assuming that they aren't supremacist minded in the first place n which case they'll reject it anyway.

It's no easy feat that much is certain.

Without attacking anyone in particular. It would probably have to significantly involve other white ppl and not us. It could be taught at police academies.

Jane Elliott's brown eye/blue eye experiment could be a model. Not that program specifically but something like that.

And it would have to be an all white initiative, but with the statistics being what they are as far as attitudes go I don't how white folks get to that place where they see the need for that. Rhetorically speaking -- if one can never experience systemic racism can one still understand or see the need for racial justice?

Would it help to change the actual law?

From a layman it seems in many of these encounters a cop is purposely escalating an encounter ("stop resisting") to a level that they can use any counter measure allowed to them under the law (lethal force)

Isn't there a way to change the use of force laws so that this couldn't happen and if it did they be held accountable?

police are trained about spectrum or continuum of force that begins w/verbal communication and goes all the way up to deadly force. they are not taught or required to use force in a like step ladder manner. any of the options on the spectrum are available at any time.

in criminal cases the officers tend to claim they were acting in self-defense or defense of others where they actually believed the civilian was a threat to the officer's or some bystanders' life or that the civilian would cause great bodily harm. prosecutors, judges and jurors tend to believe that the officers' fear is reasonable.

i think the law is fine on this - it's the application to the facts of cases that's problematic.

by the individual police dept. Not following those guidelines can lead to departmental discipline, but violating the guidelines doesn't necessarily mean a crime was committed. (see illegal chokeholds)

^^^this is my understanding at least.

most cops never see action. Cops don't get paid a ton but they also don't pay for shit half the time and that pension is nice as hell.

>most cops never see action. Cops don't get paid a ton but
>they also don't pay for shit half the time and that pension is
>nice as hell.
>
>
>
>
>
>

We can't control that. If police are that scared of unarmed black folks then like it's been said "they shouldn't be cops".

>We can't control that. If police are that scared of unarmed
>black folks then like it's been said "they shouldn't be
>cops".

Too many narratives from cops who tried to do the right thing to prove that.

I have a more positive impact at the homeless shelter than I ever could as a police officer.

lol.. good one sensei

do the right thing. Now they're LE careers are effectively over and they're struggling trying to find a way to support their families. Other cops see that and say "is it worth it?"


Too many narratives from cops who tried to do the right thing
>to prove that.
>
I have a more positive impact at the homeless shelter than I
>ever could as a police officer.

I bet you this -- if there was a shortage of cops in white areas and their neighborhoods started to go downhill you'd see change over night.

i understand all of it b/c i've deposed police officers in police misconduct cases. i've heard several of them testify about that stuff.

so what?

none of it means we should look the other way when police use excessive force in a manner that results in great bodily harm or even death to civilians.

the point of the current action seeking to change the nature of policing is to improve policing such that various communities can feel more comfortable w/police and hopefully can trust police. getting there will require work on both police and the community. we need to be able to trust our police - right now many of us don't and w/good reason. we also need police to not be so outrageously and unreasonable fearful of us civilians. b/c that unreasonable fear can be deadly (ask Philando Castile). it's gotta go.

also, i place a higher duty on police to get right b/c they operate under color of law - they get special privileges and powers b/c of their status as arms of the government. w/great power comes great responsibility. they have a duty to be right even when we're wrong. if they can't handle that then they probably shouldn't be cops.

by cops than unarmed whites.

Furthermore, violent crime in a city and
violence against cops has no correlation.

BLM =/= anti cop
BLM =/= anti white

There's no justifiable reason for a police officer to be anti BLM if they take the time to comprehend and understand what BLM is trying to achieve. The various events around the country where you've seen cops hand in hand with BLM representatives is proof alone that there are cops that get it and support it.

Those guys that walked out on the game were clearly irrationally thinking, emotional dumbasses...



"Get ready....for your blessing....."

on multiple levels that need to be addressed and there is no 1 simple cookie cutter answer that is magically going to fix everything.

White is a classification granting full or near full access to American prosperity and black is the restricting or denial of access.

Until that is gone everything is a band aid and sadly it seems the country has just about bled out.

they skurred.

since the first time they heard it

The second we start taking a stand or god forbid, delivering a message of empowerment people take that as some black power uprising revenge narrative. This narrative comes from conservative media outlets eager to get views and higher ratings to increase ad revenue.

Police get more funding and justification to racially profile because black rage.
Conservative media outlets get better views, higher ratings, and more ad revenue.
The Prison Industrial Complex gets more prisoners thanks to public apathy towards black people that results in tougher legislation targeting black people.

Everyone wins but us.... *sad face of a lifetime*

Whiteness demands fear of reprisal because acknowledged or not the white person knows black people have a different social condition as a result of not being white. Therefore the black person (in their mind) "must" want to take from the white person because white is inherently good.

It's so sad how badly a large majority of white people want this to be a terror group, but the good news is it clearly illustrates how fucked in the head you get when you buy into whiteness as identity.

They "have" to react that way because when you believe in the supremacy of whiteness and that "white" is what you are any message that tries to put a group or individual on equal footing is an attack. Look at the Williams sisters and if Social Media had been around when Jordan was killing it -- could you imagine??

And since those white lives are cops, BLM = Militant domestic terrorist cop killers.

who kill with no repercussions other than paid vacation and gofundme retirement packages funded by racist america

of supporting themselves above the morality and legality of the non-sworn citizens

both

but yeah...it's troops...then cops...

and of course...alotta cops are.....former troops

and of course troops can do no wrong in their eyes
So neither can cops


they are their legit hero's

and some prostitutes probably got paid.

i know there's plenty of frustration that arises in these conversations but the extended, drawn out exchanges above in this post by you all ..... very helpful to read.

dap.