Can someone give me a quick run down of the difference between Hispanic and Latino and why it would be offensive to call a Mexican person Hispanic?

Thank You

Latino is for people from countries in the Western Hemisphere where Romance-(derived) languages are spoken.

That's become the textbook definition.

Here is a great breakdown by Kat Lazo who is also a close family friend: http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/08/hispanic-vs-latino-vs-spanish/

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"Love your haters until they can love themselves and then love them further." ~ J. Case

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"Love your haters until they can love themselves and then love them further." ~ J. Case

which is prolly why she thinks it's trolling...

so now I get it.

knowing
i bet the majority of ppl on the street can't explain the difference

that he can't be bothered to call a whole ethnic group by their proper name because it makes him think of porn
I can be as angry as I fkn wanna be
FUCK AND DAT.

I don't recall saying i can't be bothered to call a whole ethnic group by their proper name part...

If i knew my comment seriously offended her i woulda just apologized tho., but i doubt i said what she said i said.

original post: http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=12770791

this is me calling you out: http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=12770791#12770887

this is where you said outright that you can't refer to Latinas by their correct label because it makes you think of porn:http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=12770791#12770892

So please do not fucking go there with me
If you want to continue coming into posts about Latinos
then I reserve the right to call you out of your name just like you refuse to call me by mine
FUCK YOU

just laugh, clown.

HAHA!!

and at this point very few of y'all are worth the benefit of the doubt off the rip *shrug*

it's all 'jokes' when they get called out on their foolishness. stone-throwing/hand-hiding abounds w/these miscreants.

HAHA!!

JOKES, Cenario.

laugh, clown.

http://dreamchimney.com/oftheday/otd_images/20061102105948_auto.jpg

you sorry its being pointed out to you
and you are the butt of the joke now

you aren't sorry that latinas are only sexual objects to you
you aint sorry and damn bit about that shit
did that shit AGAIN in here
god you're dumb
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

>that he can't be bothered to call a whole ethnic group by their proper name because it makes him think of porn

But like i said above, if i realized that you were seriously offended I woulda apologized back then. In any event, I'm sorry.

it usually takes less effort to apologize than not to.

Got damn!!

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And by the responses in this post I'm not the only one confused.

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"Love your haters until they can love themselves and then love them further." ~ J. Case

thank you for your concern
I speak for myself just fine.

I was just saying that I didn't know about your strong feeling on the subject when I responded.

So let's just chill.


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"Love your haters until they can love themselves and then love them further." ~ J. Case

i'm so confused.

there's also this: http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/04/latinxs-tired-of-explaining/

3. Spanish, Hispanic, Latino, Latinx, Mexican – Which One Is It? Not That Simple

Because these are labels that were forced on Latinxs upon their arrival to the US, the answer as to how people from different Latin American countries identify varies depending on who you ask.

With that in mind, here’s a primer:

Spanish people come from Spain, so it would be incorrect to refer to someone from Latin America or the Spanish-speaking Caribbean as Spanish.

Hispanic, on the other hand, refers to people who descend from Spanish-speaking countries (Brazilians and Haitians, for example, wouldn’t be considered Hispanic).

It’s important to note, however, that many people from Spanish-speaking countries resist the Hispanic categorization, viewing it as a marker that connects them directly to their colonizers – that is, the Spanish.

Instead, they may prefer Latino, which, while referring to all the countries in Latin America, including Brazil and Haiti, also ties these people together through a history of colonization.

Latinx is similar to Latino, but the “x” erases gender, making the category inclusive of men, women, agender, gender non-conforming, genderqueer, and gender-fluid people.

Finally, it bears repeating that people in Latin America neither refer to themselves as Latinx nor Hispanic. These, again, are words placed on them soon after their arrival in the US.

For many people in Latin America, they are just Cuban, Ecuadorian, Bolivian, or whichever country or indigenous population they belong to.

i mean i aint smoked no weed today so I'm not understanding why i dont understand!

the stuff in the middle is supposed to be both. so it says non-spanish speaking caribbean folks are both hispanic and latino.

>i mean i aint smoked no weed today so I'm not understanding
>why i dont understand!

GIRL I NEED SOME RIGHT FUCKING NOW!!!!!

Or don't know the language spoken in these countries.

The intersection should be those who from countries where the language spoken is Spanish and are located in central or south America .

Therefore: Brazil (portuguese), Haiti(french creole), French Guiana (french), Martinique (french), and Saint Martin(french) shouldn't be in the middle

I've always thought of "spanish" as a hood way of describing american latinos minus brazilians and mexicans.

If they're defining "latinx" as people from Latin America, then how are they defining "Latin America"? I'm assuming countries in the America's that speak a romance language, as opposed to a specific region. That explains the inclusion of Brazil and Haiti, as well as the exclusion of Belize and Guyana (and the English speaking Islands). Wouldn't that also make people from Quebec "latinx"? This is why I have a problem with that definition.

as Latin American nations to begin with
It's starting to feel like posters are making this more complicated than this needs to be
you have actual Latinxs in here explaining how we identify ourselves and each other and that's what should matter here.

how the inclusion of non-Spanish speaking nations. Do Haitians consider themselves Latino? The former Spanish colonies PLUS Brazil is probably a more universally agreed-upon definition. Including Haiti opens the can of worms...that's all I'm saying.

quit acting like it.

lol

do haitians consider themselves latinos?

Or is there a movement to remove gender from all nouns?

are the main two.
There isn't yet a push for firefighters ex. (bomberos) to be neutralized regardless of context.

honest question, I've never heard of those before.

>honest question, I've never heard of those before.

I live around Mexicans/people of Mexican descent with a handful of folks from Central American countries (I've met families from El Salvador and Honduras so far).

I've never heard Latinx.

I've lived in AZ for quite some time now, never heard Latinx
Traveled between here, SoCal, New Mexico, and Nevada; never heard/read Latinx.

According to Google there's been zero interest in this word until very recently... as in between 2014 to 2015, and even then towards the end of 2014.

https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=latinx

This is some extremely new shit...


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"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

It hasn't trickled down much yet

I first started seeing it like 2 years ago
loved the concept as soon as I understood it and been using it ever since.

Like I said (and posted), there was no interest in the term until the end of 2014 from a search perspective.

But I think it's troublesome to try to remove "gender" from a language and it's derivatives that are built around it.


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"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

but yall will be simply known as Latinos..

yall wanna be classified by nationality rather than a blanket term, but fail to do the same for Africans..

like, how many Latinos even care to discern a West from an East African??

On the low, from *my experience*, Latinos are just as arrogant as whites BUT without the requisite cultural capital

yeah I'm generalizing a bit but this sentiment is strong among you people..

Whites do it too, but they can just because.. (u know, they the opressors, colonizers & what not)

But a Latino best know better


>For many people in Latin America, they are just Cuban,
>Ecuadorian, Bolivian, or whichever country or indigenous
>population they belong to.

>but yall will be simply known as Latinos..
>
>yall wanna be classified by nationality rather than a blanket
>term, but fail to do the same for Africans..

and you know this because you know every self-identifying Latinx on earth?

>
>like, how many Latinos even care to discern a West from an
>East African??

I would say to ask those of us who are in here if your point was relevant to the debate
which it isn't.

>
>On the low, from *my experience*, Latinos are just as arrogant
>as whites BUT without the requisite cultural capital

Stick to the subject at hand
clearly we as a group can only handle debating one aspect at a time
when we do the African debate I'll be sure to call you in

>yeah I'm generalizing a bit but this sentiment is strong among
>you people..

again, you people? you're over here doing the exact same shit you're accusing us of doing but 2 wrongs make a right now I suppose.

>Whites do it too, but they can just because.. (u know, they
>the opressors, colonizers & what not)
>
>But a Latino best know better

Or else what?

>
>
>>For many people in Latin America, they are just Cuban,
>>Ecuadorian, Bolivian, or whichever country or indigenous
>>population they belong to.

except we don't become that until we come here.

Someone from the Western Hemisphere and speak Spanish, Potuguese, Kreyol (or actual French) = Latin@.

Please let me answer for myself
thank you.

"It’s important to note, however, that many people from Spanish-speaking countries resist the Hispanic categorization, viewing it as a marker that connects them directly to their colonizers – that is, the Spanish."

Therefore I'm right.

are supposed to be two different statements. Imagine a period at the end of my subject. Now you'll see that you don't disagree with me.

many moons ago, mixed with the folk who lived in Mexico = Hispanic

and the Spanish AND Portuguese mixed with the folk who lived in Central/South America = Latino


but they both come from Spain... originally...

and what is a Latin country?

lazy fuckers
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
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You cannot hate people for their own good.

unnecessary

>unnecessary

now the name calling is unnecessary?

right.
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

ill intent and u get to callin me a fucker

yes that is unnecessary

>ill intent and u get to callin me a fucker
>
>yes that is unnecessary

you know how many times latinos on here been explaining shit to y'all?

you have links

you don't WANT to understand

its quite necessary at this point
no one owes you shit
theres google
go do some damn research and figure that shit out

mofos is tired of y'all
seriously
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

he was born a British subject. No, he was Jamaican.

The colonized people are Latino. The people from the colonizing country are Hispanic/Spanish or Portuguese, depending on which of those two countries they're from, of course.

differ from that? Were they not colonized also.... particularly by Spain and then gained their independence later on

I honest to God don't recall this in history class from middle school

years is that Mexicans are not Hispanic. They're Latin@ as well.

In the US, the definition of Hispanic has moved around a bit in the last 30 or so years. At one time, Mexicans would have been called Hispanic, but that's seen in improper today. Like how Oriental took a nosedive in the early 90s in favor of Asian, or Afro-American, instead of African American.

Mexicans are as 'Hispanic' as any other Spanish-speaking ppl.

plenty of them resist the label as plenty Spanish-speaking ppl tend to resist it. which is fine w/me.

but Mexicans are definitely 'Hispanic' and there has been no change in the understanding of the term by those who actually use it. those who use 'Hispanic' will properly label Mexicans as such.

i have no idea what you're talking about. what are you talking about?

Here come the pain.

the USA has labeled the Mexicans as 'Hispanic' as we have labeled all Spanish-speaking ppl 'Hispanic'. the ppl themselves feel all kindsa ways about the tag.

what are YOU talking about?

I could have sworn that I read somewhere that Hispanic was out now because it hews so closely to the word Spain. I thought I'd read somewhere that Latino had become preferential over Hispanic for that reason.

some folks who've been labeled 'Hispanic' are pushing back against the colonialism inherent in the label and so they reject it outright. that doesn't mean that Mexicans have been removed from under the 'Hispanic' umbrella by those who seek to use the label. AFAIK, i mean.

the Spanish raped indigenous folks and created "Mestizos." Not only in Mexico, but throughout the Americas.

The terms hispanic doesn't come into play until the Nixon administration.

None of these terms are country specific.

sayin the same thing

the Spanish folks from Spain.....sailed over on boats
to the Americas and 'reproduced' with the native population that lives in modern day Mexico/Central/and South America

a Latino might have a dash of African and/or Portuguese where someone Hispanic would not?

so is the differenc mainly for PC reasons as opposed to biological?

of the terms and adopt what BSR laid out in the post. it's quite clear if you let it be.

'Spanish' = ppl from Spain w/o regard for their language or race.

'Hispanic' = ppl who speak Spanish w/o regard for their race or where they at or where they from.

'Latino' = ppl from Central and South America w/o regard for their language or race.

it's possible for ppl to be labeled both Hispanic and Latino. but some ppl are Latino w/o being Hispanic (Brazilians, Haitians and others from Central and South America who don't speak Spanish). but the only Spanish ppl are those who actually live in Spain or are from Spain. it is lazy language to refer to Hispanics as 'Spanish' b/c they speak the Spanish language.

>>it's possible for ppl to be labeled both Hispanic and Latino. but some ppl are Latino w/o being Hispanic (Brazilians, Haitians and others from Central and South America who don't speak Spanish).


I understand now

my confusion lied in thinkin one had to fit in one specific category

I knew the difference between Spanish and the rest...just not Hispanic vs Latino

again...thanks

if all central and south americans are latinx, then you might be labeling a bunch of people that who might consider themselves something different.

theres a grip of english and french speaking caribbean islands that probably take issue with being labeled as latinx.

and damn y'all in here looking down and snarking at folks for posing valid questions. i know this is okp but damn.

>many moons ago, mixed with the folk who lived in Mexico =
>Hispanic
>
>and the Spanish AND Portuguese mixed with the folk who lived
>in Central/South America = Latino
>and what is a Latin country?

Latin America as it's generally known is made up of the 20+ former colonies of Spain in the Americas
where it gets murky is whether to include countries such as Brazil and Haiti. It's a continuing debate amongst ourselves because their colonizers also spoke Latin/Romance languages (Spanish, French, Portuguese, Italian and Romanian all fall into the same language group.)

I broke this down twice already as far as self-identification in this post (#3 and #10)

>but they both come from Spain... originally...
>

I'm not anymore Spanish than you are English
since America IS a former English colony

One is in the archives, but there's gotta be a bunch more times.

I swear to God we go through this an average of every 1-2 years
this is tiring
I AM TIRED

>>but they both come from Spain... originally...
>>
>
>I'm not anymore Spanish than you are English
>since America IS a former English colony

whether they are of English/Anglo-Saxon descent or not.


>Latin America as it's generally known is made up of the 20+
>former colonies of Spain in the Americas
>where it gets murky is whether to include countries such as
>Brazil and Haiti. It's a continuing debate amongst ourselves
>because their colonizers also spoke Latin/Romance languages
>(Spanish, French, Portuguese, Italian and Romanian all fall
>into the same language group.)

Nobody really considers Haiti as Latin American. Brazil generally is though.

but I bet that makes them angry too

so ionno, I just roll with it and when they get mad I shrug.

>so ionno, I just roll with it and when they get mad I shrug.



~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

and Asians... and Indians... and Africans...

in my lifetime it was rare for one of them to do the knowledge in finding out where other people were from and how to label them correctly.

Only thing that mattered was making sure you used the correct term when addressing them.

so fuck it, I'm not wasting time learning all that shit just to get shitted on like half the people in this post.

>so fuck it, I'm not wasting time learning all that shit just
>to get shitted on like half the people in this post.

you don't get that credit to begin with
how old are you?
how you post on this board

nah its you
and yeah its these dudes
basically fuck y'all specifically

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Hispanic refers to people of Spanish speaking origin. It is a linguistic marker. It was coined by/during the Nixon administration and because of this it is seen as "top down" naming. It is problematic for many people (myself included) because it infers that what is important about these people is their proximity to Europe (ie whitness) and points directly to their colonization. Not only that but it doesn't take into account the people from "Hispanic" countries that don't speak Spanish, but instead still communicate through their indigenous languages.

Latino is shorthand for Latino Americano. Latin American. It is a geographic marker instead of a linguistic one. It refers to a place, a space and not a language. In contrast to "hispanic" which is an example of a name for a people coming from an institution, the term comes from the people themselves. You are much more likely to here "hispanic" from people more closely tied to white institutions (government, the justice system, etc.) and "latino" from those closer to grass-roots movements or community based organizations.

As my homie BSR quoted above, Spanish is a very sexist language so folks tied to more intellectual circles have started writing 'latin@' and more recently latinx to be more inclusive of both women and gender non-conforming peoples (which in the case of the muxes of southern Mexico, for example, have long been apart of our societies and cultures.

I would say that Latinx is the safer word to use (the word me and mines prefer), but you will find people on both (and other) sides of the discussion and who prefer different terms. You should ask them how they identify.

;-)

Lol

>As my homie BSR quoted above, Spanish is a very sexist
>language so folks tied to more intellectual circles have
>started writing 'latin@' and more recently latinx to be more
>inclusive of both women and gender non-conforming peoples
>(which in the case of the muxes of southern Mexico, for
>example, have long been apart of our societies and cultures.
>
>I would say that Latinx is the safer word to use (the word me
>and mines prefer), but you will find people on both (and
>other) sides of the discussion and who prefer different terms.
>You should ask them how they identify.

Why not use "Latin"?

We're talking about people.
And a people who despite having a certain disdain for colonization are proud of their culture and language. Many people don't like unnecessarily Anglicizing things.

Are they not both problematic?

Again. Hispanic is a word created by government. They decided what to call people without talking to those people.

Latino is a term the people themselves coined for themselves.

Stop right there.

>Again. Hispanic is a word created by government. They decided
>what to call people without talking to those people.
>
>Latino is a term the people themselves coined for themselves.

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/11/18/opinion/l-latino-hispanic-quechua-no-american-take-your-pick-718992.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latino_(demonym)

Swipe:
"
In its modern usage, the idea that a part of the Americas has affinity with the Romance cultures as a whole can be traced back to the 1830s, in the writing of the French Saint-Simonian Michel Chevalier, who postulated that this part of the Americas was inhabited by people of a "Latin race" and that it could, therefore, ally itself with "Latin Europe" in a struggle with "Teutonic Europe", "Anglo-Saxon America" and "Slavic Europe". The term Latin America was supported by the French Empire of Napoleon III during the French invasion of Mexico, as a way to include France among countries with influence in America and to exclude Anglophone countries, and played a role in his campaign to imply cultural kinship of the region with France. The idea was taken up by Latin American intellectuals and political leaders of the mid- and late-nineteenth century, who no longer looked to Spain or Portugal as cultural models, but rather to France.
"


>Stop right there.

smh. no reason to stop *discussing*

The swipe is about the term Latin America. Which is not the same as "Latino."

And there is a reason to stop discussing. I, like BSR, am a fucking Latino telling you what it is and ya'll wanna dispute what we're telling you.

Do you get that?

"
If Hispanic is an imposed official term, so is Latino, since it was the French who imposed that name on the southern continent of our hemisphere.
"
--Hector Velez Guadalupe, Associate Professor of Sociology, Ithaca College

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/11/18/opinion/l-latino-hispanic-quechua-no-american-take-your-pick-718992.html

The article you clearly didn't read. And getting huffy, defensive and dismissive doesn't prove your point, and neither does being Latino yourself, unless you have relatives that were alive at the time of the terms' creation.


>Do you get that?

Well, do you?

Second of all fuck you.
thirdly, I actually did read the shit, but figured you smart enough to know that what one person says, doesn't necessarily mean that's how it's generally looked at.
fourth, fuck you.
fifth, if you knew shit about the latino community, or even clicked around on wikipedia a little more you'd find this "The adoption of the term "Latino" by the US Census Bureau in 2000"
Adoption. That word means it came from somewhere else. Like people saying we would prefer to be called "this" than "that" Do you understand top down vs. bottom up? Yes calling the area latin america can be seen as problematic. That is not the discussion. Many people have decided they are okay with calling the area that for now.
and finally fuck you.
And kindly shut the fuck up.

Is this discussion too hard for you? Maybe you need a nap? Let the grownups handle this. Name calling is a tactic that children use.

I'm providing sources (one from a sociology professor), while you're providing your opinion. You're just wrong.


Edit: And damn, you're just even wrong-er than I first thought.

>fifth, if you knew shit about the latino community, or even clicked
>around on wikipedia a little more you'd find this "The adoption of the
>term "Latino" by the US Census Bureau in 2000"
>Adoption. That word means it came from somewhere else. Like people
>saying we would prefer to be called "this" than "that" Do you
>understand top down vs. bottom up? Yes calling the area latin america
>can be seen as problematic. That is not the discussion. Many people
>have decided they are okay with calling the area that for now.

Adopted, from here (same quote in #150):

"
In its modern usage, the idea that a part of the Americas has affinity with the Romance cultures as a whole can be traced back to the 1830s, in the writing of the French Saint-Simonian Michel Chevalier, who postulated that this part of the Americas was inhabited by people of a "Latin race" and that it could, therefore, ally itself with "Latin Europe" in a struggle with "Teutonic Europe", "Anglo-Saxon America" and "Slavic Europe". The term Latin America was supported by the French Empire of Napoleon III during the French invasion of Mexico, as a way to include France among countries with influence in America and to exclude Anglophone countries, and played a role in his campaign to imply cultural kinship of the region with France. The idea was taken up by Latin American intellectuals and political leaders of the mid- and late-nineteenth century, who no longer looked to Spain or Portugal as cultural models, but rather to France.
"

lol, dude.

and Latin America (as in place) are not the same discussion.
The post is not about the origin of the name of a geographic location.
Fuck you are dense.

You think "Latino" just originated out of thin air?

Post #143:
>Latino is a term the people themselves coined for themselves.
--Hitokiri

No amount of emotional insults will change the fact that you're very wrong here. Must sting.

which is why i want to further the discussion.

i get all that you're saying about the difference in Latino/Hispanic, but you're also throwing in Latinx (which from what I understand is to counteract sex and gender issues derived from the use of the masculine / feminine delineations in Latina/Latino), and that's what i'm trying to have a discussion about.

i see how "Latin" is problematic in the sense that it's originally the name of a dead language, but i don't see how it's problematic considering that all of these words you've described share the same etymology. "Latin" doesn't have to *just* be the word that describes a dead language--why couldn't it also be the desexualized denonym for the people of Latin America?

and the kinds of latinos who use latinx (latinxs, plural) are not the kind of people who would want to anglicize a part of their identity.

i think that "latinxs" has historical basis, as there are gender nonconforming people in Oaxaca, Southern Mexico known as "muxes." The word is indigenous in origin, genderless, and refers to transwomen (as we we might call them in the US). This is just an educated guess though as to how that word came to be.

These are just my thoughts on your question.

Latino=Latin American Country. It's shouldn't matter either way for someone who's Mexican, but call people whatever they want.

Myself included.

My experience is primarily with Mexicans in TX. So, I'll wholeheartedly concede that it's limited. They've never played it up as a big deal to them, but again it could be just that population of people.

My fam has always referred to itself as latino, but no one ever expressed any major political or social reasoning behind that preference. So, if it's a big deal to you, great. I respect what anyone wants to call themselves, but please don't act as if there aren't just as many people who couldn't give two shits about it.

You're the one talking about how no one SHOULD have any objection to be called either. All I said was that many people in fact do have objections. Many. Not all. My brush stroke was far kinder than yours.

and I don't think it should because both labels are problematic in their relation to colonization, but I'm not gonna argue with someone over how they define themselves. People can have whatever label they feel empowered by.

Identify however you like.

Some people know it all.


.
.
.
"Love your haters until they can love themselves and then love them further." ~ J. Case

and you're the last mofo that should have anything to say about people "knowing it all".

I'm speaking as someone who's in the aforementioned community, who isn't in love with either term. So, tell me again why it matters to you?

And you can chill with all the extra. Case is good.

.
.
.
"Love your haters until they can love themselves and then love them further." ~ J. Case

and you call me extra...HA!!

.
.
.
"Love your haters until they can love themselves and then love them further." ~ J. Case

Here is how fucked up it ALL is...

I am from Belize (Central America, English speaking) and Suriname (South American, Dutch speaking)...

But on these good census things I am Latin American and whatever else I want to click..

My pops considers himself part of the commonwealth since Belize was British Honduras till the early 80s...

so yea..

it's all fucked regardless of what folks saying here

Depending on where you are in the country definityions also change..

In NY everyone is Spanish unless they are Mexican

In LA everyone is Mexican even IF they are Puerto Rican

*...i dunno if y'all speak Spanish.

see? easy-peasy.

lol...

Cant be Hispanic.. Belize is the only country in the western hemisphere whose official language is English...

Shady Guatemalans keep creeping in though.. so might be Latino & Hispanic soon enough.. lol

and then what are Garifuna people? They aren't originally from the area but obviously settled there and honduras

i mean here in the USA on those census forms and whatnot - they're Latino b/c they're from a country in Latin America.

I also found this on the Latin America wiki:

"Dutch is the official language in Suriname, Aruba, and the Netherlands Antilles. (As Dutch is a Germanic language, these territories are not necessarily considered part of Latin America.)"

you did find that.

but you had asked me about ppl in HONDURAS. which is in Central America. and them ppl is Latinos.

the ppl on various lil islands in the Caribbean aren't always called Latino. there aren't enough of them for most of us to care. they get in where they fit in - probably as 'other'.

lol.. ionno

all this shit is confusing to me.. especially growing up in NY cuz the distinction was much diff for my entire life..

Like you are Haitian or Trini not Latino..

but you spoilt

and ppl there who throw around 'Spanish' and 'Hispanic' and 'Latino' all willy-nilly are often incorrect.

Never...

Being Belizean in Chicago is also interesting.. you either become Black or Mexican

Also why are either country Latin American when neither speak a romance language?

If we're willing to include all of that region, then fine.

oh, okay. i didn't know it was on land. i thought it was a Caribbean island.

my bad.

sho you right.

let's be brand new together.

Where are Puerto Rico, Cuba and The Dominican Republic, (and for the sake of this discussion, Haiti). Jamaica ain't right between them?

and since Mars is near Earth i'm a Martian. as in when ppl refer to 'Martians' they are also talking about humans from Earth b/c technicalities!

totally.

i like this brand new world.

let's keep playing Fun w/Semantics!

You're arguing that geography is what defines it.
Then when challenged with a reasonable contradiction to that definition, you start talking about Mars?

in this world from which JF and i are posting Jamaicans are referred to as 'Latino' b/c of technicalities and 'gotcha!' so put away your understanding of the term which has not ever included Jamaicans. in this world if Jamaicans ain't Latino then there are no Latinos! and if Jamaicans are Latinos then so are Quebecois! which makes the term meaningless again.

yay!

let's be brand new together. it's fun.

That's just not what it means to be Latino/a. You are wrong about the defining characteristics

>in this world from which JF and i are posting Jamaicans are
>referred to as 'Latino' b/c of technicalities and 'gotcha!'
>so put away your understanding of the term which has not ever
>included Jamaicans. in this world if Jamaicans ain't Latino
>then there are no Latinos! and if Jamaicans are Latinos then
>so are Quebecois! which makes the term meaningless again.
>
>yay!
>
>let's be brand new together. it's fun.

Thanx for clearing that up for me, player.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/NcE2q0J7sfgl2/200_s.gif

LULZEEPHEEESS!!

*we've just gone plat ladies and gents!!!*

Agreed...

they apply these labels as they see fit.

lol

I SEE YOU WHITE PEOPLE
ON YOUR DIVIDE-AND-CONQUER BULLSHIT
I SEE YOOOOOOUUUU
*shakes fist*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs2tdjzla8Y

Mexicans call themselves hispanic here. Which threw me off at first
cause I learned on TV as a kid, that it is supposed to be offensive
lol.

They don't say Latino like at all here.

I live in a neighborhood that's comprised of I would say about 90%+ people originally from Mexico. If they're not saying "Mexican" outright, it's Hispanic.

I can't even remember the last time I've heard "Chicano" outside of Kid Frost's "La Raza".


---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

Like I'll think of describing someone as Latino, do a double take and say Hispanic, and think I'm not being PC.

Then there is a significant portion of Hispanics in Texas who think of themselves only as Americans.

its an all encompassing term

similarities abound!

If not, I'm curious to its etymology

I guess "speak" would be pronounced similar to "spic" by native Spanish speakers.

the word itself doens't seem to carry any historical weight at all.
like, how did it become the equivalent of "nigger" for Latinos??

So basically, a foreigner mispronounces a word, then said word becomes
the perjorative term for that foreigner's people?? Am I right?? smh


>I guess "speak" would be pronounced similar to "spic" by
>native Spanish speakers.

Or "Nips" in the case of referring to the Japanese people by the Japanese name for Japan itself "Nippon".

How shortened names came to be offensive is beyond me. No different than a Brit calling me a Yank.


>>I guess "speak" would be pronounced similar to "spic" by
>>native Spanish speakers.

When some of them try to say "speak" in English, it comes out as "spic".


---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

Latino = From latin America
Hispanic = A spanish-speaking person in North America

A brazilian person is latino/a but not an hispanic.
A colombian person is both.

one was like "it's like two different cultures!"

and the other said "when someone says they are hispanic, i'm like "what part of spain are you from?"

funny how life works. board is life. i was in la btw.

entire concept of Latin America was coined by the French to distinguish themselves culturally from the Anglo colonies

Makes sense. French *is* a romance language derived from Latin.

if Latino is based on romance languages in the New World, then Quebecois are Latinos. If it's based on geography, then Jamaicans are Latino.

It's just easier to say that the people from Spanish and Portugese speaking colonies are Latino.

>if Latino is based on romance languages in the New World,
>then Quebecois are Latinos. If it's based on geography, then
>Jamaicans are Latino.
>
>It's just easier to say that the people from Spanish and
>Portugese speaking colonies are Latino.

And Jamaica's existence (and non-romance language) makes things even more complicated.

Is the Caribbean considered "Latin America" ? According to Wikipedia, it is, which makes Jamaicans Latin(a/o)s, but rules out Quebecois.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_America

look at the fact that (especially in Europe) the latin distinction has always meant more than mere language, its always been a cultural distinction beyond romance tongues, and included the French. And Latino means Latin.

Now obviously there's the matter of racial distinctions at play here, but there needs to be another term (like mestizo, indigenous, or some other new term) because Latino still does a terrible job accomplishing that even if you decide you only mean Spanish and Portuguese America.

Furthermore, plenty of Québécois and Cajun people are mixed with indigenous blood but their phenotypes pass as white much easier than ppl mixed with Taino or Aztec or Inca etc.

Meanwhile, there are plenty of people in Spanish/Portuguese America with little to no discernable non-euro features/genes.

Christina Aguilera, Ricky Martin, Gloria Estefan, Lionel Messi, etc are Latino but your average Cajun, Québécois etc aren't?

Big Papi is Latino but not Wyclef?

>Christina Aguilera, Ricky Martin, Gloria Estefan, Lionel
>Messi, etc are Latino but your average Cajun, Québécois etc
>aren't?
>
>Big Papi is Latino but not Wyclef?

And the idea of Latin America was in fact meant as more of a cultural distinction than a linguistic one, with the French tyrants making a point that the areas they, the Spanish and the Portuguese controlled were similar to each other but nothing like the British places.

The French leaders wanted indigenous people to believe it's much better to be overrun by Latins than Anglos. lol (well, perhaps there's a smidgen truth in that load of hogwash, given how thoroughly the United States colonies separated and snuffed out indigenous blood compared to most of Latin America, where precolumbian genes are much more present or even dominant, but I'm not an expert on all the reasons why that's the case -- and its like choosing between eating shit and drinking piss)

which i think is reason enough not to use it unless someone who self identifies firmly requests it

I'm Dominican. I speak Spanish. And I am from the island of hispañola , so I consider myself Hispanic .

When I speak Spanish and I refer to myself I say that I am Latino/a

But if you asked me what I am? You'll get a resounding "I am Hispanic "

of Hispaniola...I wonder if you or anyone else has come across Haitains that identify as Hispanics??

I've only ever heard of Haitians acknowledging Hispaniola geographically, i.e. 'Haiti is part of the Hispaniola' but not identifying as Hispanic. I am not Haitian tho so yeah lol.

as a result of spanish europeans traveling to the new world and genetic mixing of european settlers with indigenous people. when european settlers began bringing african slaves to the new world it was the mixture of spanish european, indigenous, and african.

spanish were the first european settlers to travel to the new world. once the french and english saw how much it improved the spanish economy, they followed suit.

that's what my college prof told me.

when i was in middle school my teacher told me the LA times would not use the word "hispanic" in the newspaper. then i began to notice people on the west coast never really used the term "hispanic." i first heard the term "latino" in high school.

latino vs. hispanic is political, kinda like me deciding what to mark on demographic surveys: Filipino or Asian/Pacific Islander.

PS. Philippines was colonized by Spain & the Spanish settlers mixed with the indigenous people. The way England sent it's "prisoners" to Australia, Spain exiled it's undesirables to the Philippines who also mixed with the locals.

>>Spain exiled it's undesirables to the Philippines who also mixed with the locals


interesting

it was a college course about american history taught from the raza studies perspective. my prof. retired 2013 after 40 years at sdsu. i think the prof said it in lecture because i was one of the few that was interested and participated in the lecture. she never dived into it...but she stressed it was all in the name of the king and christianity...

https://books.google.com/books?id=Q18VAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA160&lpg=PA160&dq=spain+sent+prisoners+to+philippines&source=bl&ots=-CQIvoqlr9&sig=caUND3jvwchUHuOMoY1UvgcANdU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CBwQ6AEwADgKahUKEwiRrf6swPzHAhWUUogKHTVSDOE#v=onepage&q=spain%20sent%20prisoners%20to%20philippines&f=false

when your comment and avi end up in a race think piece tomorrow online!

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

and imagine some 52 year old white dude sitting at a computer satisfied as shit.

fuck this shit, these people are nuts. haha

We were talking about it at work. I didn't even realize that Mexicans actually swam across the Rio Grande...I felt like "wetback" was originally for Puerto Ricans or someone who literally came across the ocean. I only thought about how California/Diego were separated from Mexico by land.

>We were talking about it at work. I didn't even realize that
>Mexicans actually swam across the Rio Grande...I felt like
>"wetback" was originally for Puerto Ricans or someone who
>literally came across the ocean. I only thought about how
>California/Diego were separated from Mexico by land.

strictly mexican immigrant slur for the most part because of yes history/circumstance
other latinx have been caught in the crossfire of that ignorance so we know when a person uses it
its a double triple dose of ignorance and racism

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Pretty sure thats how she immigrated before setting up shop in San Antonio

every 2-3 months the same poast is made and every latino OKP makes the effort to explain and answer questions
pero ya que se vaya pal carajo!

is because we, Americans, view race from a Black v White perspective?

I.e., someone can't be black *and* white, at least not in a tax form on in a census.

But like BSR and Hiktori have mentioned, the label of Latino/a vs Hispanic has an entire history and complexity that many people, including myself, are generally ignorant about.

Black identity in many ways is built upon the idea of separateness from white culture. Black in the past and in many ways could not be White and our identity for better or worse is the response to the consequences of being excluded.

While, the histories of Latinos in the United States, from what I know, are more intertwined and nuanced. Obviously, Latinos have been and are marginalized, but there is the aspect of culture, legitimacy, and language that Blacks in general don't face.

It doesn't seem accurate from the knowledge I have to view race from a Black, White perspective when learning about the history of Latino/as in America.