It seems like disadvantage people start from scratch every generation.

And I am not just talking about assets (which is obvious) but I am talking about life lessons and knowledge that is passed down.

I see it even in the successful people from disadvantaged backgrounds, they have to learn on their own how to navigate school college, getting loans, how to get and keep a job, etc.

I was reminded of this because I just finished the book "the short and tragic life of robert peace" and it's clear to me the biggest thing missing in his life was someone to mentor him and tell him exactly what he needed to do after he left Yale. Dude was groping around trying to figure out what to do with that Yale degree and all it would have taken is someone to point out how he could have leverage that to make the type of money he wanted. A lot of first generation college don't realize that making it to college is really just the start of it all and they have all sorts of decisions to make after that to obtain a Good Life. I don't know how many smart black kids I have met who go to good schools and unknowingly sign up for the hardest course load possible and end up doing terrible in school for the first time in their life.

Meanwhile their wealthy counterparts are being advised on what courses to take, where to intern and have jobs lined up when they are done with school. I finally understand the old black folk general advice to don't take time off before school or grad school and their insistence that you either become a doctor or a lawyer. At least those are degrees that can help you be self-sufficient to a certain extent and not need nepotism and other look outs to get ahead.


I was also reminded this fact because I was home last week and I see my Mom playing that role of giving real basic advice to all sorts of people (college and non-college bound) who don't otherwise have that sort of mentor role. No don't take that high interest loan on that car, you can't afford it. Learn about your credit score; etc. My little foster brother got his student loans check in his bank account and thought it was party time. Ma dukes had to shut all of that down.

If you have to figure out all that stuff on your own you either have to be super smart or disciplined or you can only get so far in one generation.

Personally, even though I come from a good family and have done pretty well for myself, I still feel that I am about one generation behind my white counterparts. Considering My father's grandfather was a slave, that's damn good. But yeah.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

Movies I need y'all bastids to see so we can discuss:

Five Star - https://goo.gl/jBHbVv
Appropriate Behavior - http://goo.gl/isCzTM
Ma

We are so quick to tell our children "once you're 18, you're outta here!" instead of truly preparing them for success. I observe other cultures and how their focus is on the family's success OVER individual success.

We just need to make sure we are intentional about what we need to learn and then share it. We have to pass on real knowledge before we even get into talking dollars and cents.

daughter being a prostitute as long as she could take care of herself and wasn't dependent on him or others to survive?

I remember thinking that's a crazy sentiment but I have actually heard that sentiment (less extreme of course) echo'd since where a parent thought the primary goal for their child was for them to be independent. That sounds great but it actually comes into Middle-class and wealthy folk aspirations like going to school and seeking advance degrees.

I've seen parents with the means decide to not help their kids with schooling because they think it's more important for the kid to be independent and make it on their own.


Wealthy folks actually expect their kids to be dependent on them for some time as they find the right path for themselves.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

Movies I need y'all bastids to see so we can discuss:

Five Star - https://goo.gl/jBHbVv
Appropriate Behavior - http://goo.gl/isCzTM
Ma

its frustrating. some decisions just make life so much harder at an early age. then its so much work to get out the whole that's been dug before you even started life.

I'm a third generation college graduate, but my parents and grandparents' experiences were at HBCUs in the pre-Civil Rights era and the the period on the immediate heels of the peak of the Civil Rights movement. They didn't really understand what my college experience at a small PWI in the 90's and early 2000's was like.

Also, I've never had a mentor. I spent my whole career just trying to figure out my next move on my own and there have been some frustrating times.

They will get really excited about an "investment opportunity" but have no facts, details, numbers, or projections. They throw their money because of a feeling or a slick sales pitch.

Poor people- it depends on why you are poor and how you define poverty. Most are stuck. It is just unlikely they will ever get out unless they have a drastic shift in their entire situation. Even then, they will still make uninformed financial decisions.

My wealthy family members are patient. Will live in the same house, drive the same car and chill until it is time to make a move.

My wealthy white friends have a network of family and support systems including systemic racism which helps them get promoted easier.

My wealthy non-white friends (Indians, Asians, Arabs, Africans) don't fuck around in jobs or majors that don't make money. Even if they do the arts, they are going for broke by being an editor in Los Angeles, a book publisher, own a dance company or start an art school.

My wealthy black friends are typically at the top of their fields- engineers, doctors, lawyers, investment bankers, COO's, or they started their own businesses.

There are many ways to make money. Most poor people I know are short sighted and go for only what was put before them.

>There are many ways to make money. Most poor people I know are
>short sighted and go for only what was put before them.

You actually have to be short sighted (aka very focused on the short term) if your goal is to make ends meet until the end of the week.

I don't want this to be a bash the poor post.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

Movies I need y'all bastids to see so we can discuss:

Five Star - https://goo.gl/jBHbVv
Appropriate Behavior - http://goo.gl/isCzTM
Ma

a lack of budgeting and depending on next weeks paycheck keeps people in that check to check mode.

Rather than a result of a situation or a lack of information.

I am not sure most people from a wealthy background would behave differently if they were in the same situation or if more poor people would behave differently if they had more information or resources.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

Movies I need y'all bastids to see so we can discuss:

Five Star - https://goo.gl/jBHbVv
Appropriate Behavior - http://goo.gl/isCzTM
Ma

Told her to buy a reliable car with no payments. Offered her two years of interest free payement to repay loan.

What does she do:

Buy a used car with monthly payments, used the $2500 to get her "real estate license".

Has yet to sell a house or make money, the used car broke down and she needs more money than the original $2500 to get it fixed.

She is now stuck in this financing arrangement and has no real estate clients because she can't get around.

I never got my $2500 back.

That is short sighted. This is not a lack of information. She made an emotinal decison.

The lack of information I see is she doesn't seem to know what being a real estate broker actually entails and what she would need to make the practice successful.

Now imagine if her Mom or Dad was a real estate broker or she had a mentor in the game who could guide her through what it takes to be successful in the business?

Sounds like she also could have used a dude to tell her not to buy a POS car.





**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

Movies I need y'all bastids to see so we can discuss:

Five Star - https://goo.gl/jBHbVv
Appropriate Behavior - http://goo.gl/isCzTM
Ma

.

I understand that there are intricacies of economics that some people don't learn in the home. But basic math? I have 100 bucks, that thing costs 150 bucks. I need to save my money or go without that thing. I don't see why you need a mentor to tell you how to add and subtract.

Most people with money problems, don't do the simple math of managing their money. Save for the unexpected. Pool resources. Buy a house that you can manage and a car that you can maintenance. I see it all the time. People buy and spend on things that have no value.

Get a job, create a business or find a side hustle that brings in extra cash. I don't think money is that complicated.

Sure white girl Sally has legacy money and a rich family. But my granny was poor, uneducated and cleaned homes. She died with land, money in the bank and insurance policies because she lived within her means. She lived comfortably never having to worry about her next dollar. She only dated/married men who met her half way financially. She didn't have parents to guide her. She used basic math.

Will we be where rich girl Sally is? Maybe not, but do we need to be scraping and begging? Absolutely not.

It seems she just didn't make allowance for the car breaking down and not being able to make money right away without a real estate license.

>She only dated/married men who met her half way financially.


This is another example that isn't about math but its a mistake I see people make all the time. How you going to get with someone and not give any thought to their financial prospects?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

Movies I need y'all bastids to see so we can discuss:

Five Star - https://goo.gl/jBHbVv
Appropriate Behavior - http://goo.gl/isCzTM
Ma

this is true for me and i'm not even first generation.
>

>it's clear to me
>the biggest thing missing in his life was someone to mentor
>him and tell him exactly what he needed to do after he left
>Yale. Dude was groping around trying to figure out what to do
>with that Yale degree and all it would have taken is someone
>to point out how he could have leverage that to make the type
>of money he wanted. A lot of first generation college don't
>realize that making it to college is really just the start of
>it all and they have all sorts of decisions to make after that
>to obtain a Good Life.
>
>Meanwhile their wealthy counterparts are being advised on what
>courses to take, where to intern and have jobs lined up when
>they are done with school.
>

>
>Personally, even though I come from a good family and have
>done pretty well for myself, I still feel that I am about one
>generation behind my white counterparts. Considering My
>father's grandfather was a slave, that's damn good. But yeah.
>

Accounts to sort things out. Some of it falls on deaf ears and can be exasperating.

when it comes to making/spending money is that those who tend to ALWAYS have financial issues feel as if they aren't making money if they aren't able to spend it.

Meaning...if they are getting a big tax refund, OT check, B-Day gift, or anything on that side of things...the VERY first thing they say is "ooooo I can't wait to get paid so that I can buy a new TV/car/clothes/watch" etc etc....versus being able to just take a big check and deposit it into savings. Literally all of my friends who react like this to big payments seem to never understand how to actually build wealth.

I remember when I was saving money after college, just build my savings account up since I never had a deep one...my boy asked if I wanted to go to Vegas. I told him naw, because I was saving up. He asked why, and I told him "just to have money saved, since I'm fresh out of college." And again, it was like "so..........you're just saving money, to....save money? You're not planning on buying anything??"

***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

I would've said poor vs financially stable tho

I didn't even have all my high school core classes by the time I graduated

And I didn't know how far behind I was until I dropped out

That goes for rich and poor kids, the difference being the mistakes have much greater consequences for poor kids

People think they can beat the odds. there are too many competing messages.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

Movies I need y'all bastids to see so we can discuss:

Five Star - https://goo.gl/jBHbVv
Appropriate Behavior - http://goo.gl/isCzTM
Ma

and it's gotta start early...you gotta be made to do shit

its a culture

im not talking race
but a way of doing things

I never found an answer to that question, so never read it

What's interesting is blk(hood) achievement/upward mobility is still seen As so rare, rose that grew from concrete, that we all marvel at it, celebrate it like it's our own kin, and When something goes wrong we collectively ask what happened

Reminds me of the wrestling with the story of the black girl arrested for trying to join isis, just graduated on her way to being a doctor. Sad story made worse partly bc "we" felt that "we" lost something


Maybe some folks just slip thru the cracks tho. And not even slip. Maybe we admit They turn their back on what they knew and actively run thru the cracks to whatever they saw on the other side

in my mind, wealth boils down access.

a handshake or a phone call can allow one to leapfrog past years of red tape.

But I'll refrain from going on a rant and interrupting this blaming the victim mentality

Carry on

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

Movies I need y'all bastids to see so we can discuss:

Five Star - https://goo.gl/jBHbVv
Appropriate Behavior - http://goo.gl/isCzTM
Ma

That's EXACTLY what this is

When this theory is based on the notion that wealthy folks are born with certain resources at their disposal that poor people don't have?

Or are you just a joker trying to spark?

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

Movies I need y'all bastids to see so we can discuss:

Five Star - https://goo.gl/jBHbVv
Appropriate Behavior - http://goo.gl/isCzTM
Ma

The og post basically says broke folk don't have the means, connections, and understanding to be successful.

Not true, you should know why

Also, you did not mention any discriminatory policies which makes any other statements farcical

But I don't want to keep going back and forth explaining why many items placed in water get wet.

Please consult many of the published studies and counter arguments concerning low income youths and college for further reference

>The og post basically says broke folk don't have the means,
>connections, and understanding to be successful.

Not at all my lack of nuanced reading bredren. No where do I imply poor people can't be successful. In fact we all know plenty of poor people that become successful. And I acknowledged that it can be done if they are smart and/or disciplined.


But you seem to be missing my point. If we lived in a meritocracy that did did not have discriminatory policies, then it wouldn't matter if your parents are wealthy, you'd be able to become successful and wealthy despite your economic background.

But that's not the country we live in, we live in a country where economic background is the best indicator of performance on standardize test. That ain't right.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

Movies I need y'all bastids to see so we can discuss:

Five Star - https://goo.gl/jBHbVv
Appropriate Behavior - http://goo.gl/isCzTM
Ma

My point is that since academia is known to be structurally and culturally discriminatory (which were not touched on in an appropriate manner imo) all the stuff about mentoring and planning don't seem to be as important as addressing the inherent issues with succeeding in and after college.

These discriminatory policies may better account for why so many low income students do not succeed. It is blaming the victim when you do not address the policies in detail but rather make it appear as though poor people do not properly plan and do not have mentors.

I could go into much more depth than this but I would believe that this post would have been better if you would have spoke on your personal experiences with college. Anything else appears to be theorizing, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I just disagree with what you have to say and I do not need to insult or resort to name calling to make my point clear.

It just sounds like you are salty I didn't talk about it the way you want to talk about it and are reflexively calling it victim blaming to discount my POV.


All you said about structural discrimination can be true without meaning what I am saying is not true (I think the ideas actually compliment each other and go hand hand).

You want the post to be about something else, go ahead and make that post.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

Movies I need y'all bastids to see so we can discuss:

Five Star - https://goo.gl/jBHbVv
Appropriate Behavior - http://goo.gl/isCzTM
Ma

Do not already have mentors and resources or do not know how to access these things

I'm fine in this post and I'ma be up in here for a minute

>Do not already have mentors and resources or do not know how
>to access these things
>
>I'm fine in this post and I'ma be up in here for a minute


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

Movies I need y'all bastids to see so we can discuss:

Five Star - https://goo.gl/jBHbVv
Appropriate Behavior - http://goo.gl/isCzTM
Ma

Not nessarily resources but many schools do provide both of these services and information on how to obtain them. Many poor families likely have a least one person that has graduated as well

you either want to educate or be pleased with yourself.

choose your path.

You are being argumentative for no good reason

That's a personal problem

You're post is 'blaming the victim' cause he hasn't figured out how to turn it into a slogan yet.

The original post was real world shit.

Of course some people choose not to run because they chose to converse

But don't let that stop your false agenda people!!!

EDIT: Also, don't blame me because I can sloganize my rationale. You ain't gotta hate, find a way to relate.

*shrug*

No sugar coaters, only people trying to catch a fade with me

Let's turn up

In college, I had a friend who invited me to a birthday dinner party a relative was throwing her. Though she leaned Republican, I didn't really think of her as fancy or even well-to-do.

As I was meeting people and overhearing conversations, I realized that a couple of local judges & a state legislator were in attendance. It hit me then, "Oh, that's how certain deals get done." I'm not even talking crooked, big money deals; as much as people cast themselves as self-made heroes in their own movies, a lot of financial/political/industry success is built upon the intricate network of connections that people make & have and so much of that is often handed down to subsequent generations.

So, yeah, there's some success just in various minority folks making it to Ivy League schools but for the long term, generation-after-generation level of success a lot of POC are starting from scratch in a sphere where others haven't had to.

Acknowledging that isn't self-pity/self-victimization/victim-blaming; it's just looking at the reality of the situation.

The dinner party game is REAL as shit..

I've only just now started taking it seriously..

Like.. ok.. fuck inviting "friends" I am curating this bitch for actionable conversations..

I experience this as a class phenomenon (being white).....but can see how it intersects with race. I look through my facebook feed and sometimes I get into a 'woe is me' state. All these people that I know enough about....hustling less than me. How are they living in these houses? How are they getting these jobs? How are they taking these vacations?

There are nuances to mortgages, education, savings accounts, etc that are so simple....yet if there's not someone there to point them out to you....you're fucked. The simplest thing turns into a HUGE thing in the aggregate. I weep at the wasted opportunities I missed. Noone showed me how to manage my pension. Noone showed me how to take advantage of all the stock options/benefits packages. Noone advised me to buy a house before the market grew outta reach. I've probably thrown away tens of thousands of dollars. In terms of house ownership.....probably hundreds of thousands of dollars. I was so focused on the 'value of hard work'. I didn't realize I was 'working stupid'. Now I'm nearly 40 and catching on.....but that was 20 years of misguided decisions and missed opportunities.

The connections. And this is all nepotism. And nepotism is the reason we need employment equity policies. People think employment equity and diversity quotas are to counter racism in employers. That may be the case sometimes....but the much bigger factor that employment equity targets is nepotism. Nepotism is not necessarily a racist practise....but it has the same result. It will keep the same type of people, in terms of heritage, in the same privileged jobs until the end of time if there is not government interference.

>If you have to figure out all that stuff on your own you
>either have to be super smart or disciplined or you can only
>get so far in one generation.
>
>Personally, even though I come from a good family and have
>done pretty well for myself, I still feel that I am about one
>generation behind my white counterparts. Considering My
>father's grandfather was a slave, that's damn good. But yeah.

See, I'm from the hood and none of my family with the exception of mom didn't really do much with their life relative to their white countrymen and women. The larger point about figuring stuff out on your own sucks to learn.

Your first statement is an understatement. You have to be Gotdamn Clark Kent, Batman, and Iron Man rolled into one with an ungodly amount of access. How do you get access? Figure that shit out.

With that said, everyone with a fast internet connection is in a better position to find those resources today than they were 30 years ago. Yeah, you won't know where to look but dig deep because some of the info is out there. It's finding that OG that knows the real from the fake to guide you that's the hard part.

just because my wife taught his daughter ballet lessons.

it's so much easier to get IN when you have a connection versus typing and googling on the internet.

s.blak
GrowF

It's hard for a lot of ppl to get 4 year degrees. We need to encourage ppl to go into other healthcare related fields like nursing or dental hygiene. Halfway through with a 2 year degree in those fields you can start working in your field for a decent amount to pay for the next two years. Another thing I explained to my sister.

The military is also a good option for those who do not have a lot of options or connections ESP with degrees. A lot of jobs are not infantry or combat related. But the numbers of black high ranking officials are down in large part because blacks are avoiding combat mos. We need more black ppl in both but esp the officer post college track.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/13/opinion/sunday/what-the-privileged-poor-can-teach-us.html?_r=0

argues that attending private high school makes a significant difference in the success rates of low income kids at highly selective colleges and universities.

The cultural shift was always the biggest shock for me going to a highly selective pwi. Income wise, my parents were well off by black southern standards but it wasn't intergenerational wealth (grandparents don't have hs diplomas/working class in the south).

so much of being successful at the highly selective places is learning the rules of the white super elite that exists in new york/new england/northeast. the kids who went to elite boarding school and prep school experienced a little bit of a less rude awakening (although i can't imagine navigating dalton or andover at 14 or 15).