The Arab Spring is the most common answer to the question, but the Arab Spring didn't serve to build anything. It did a good job of tearing down oppressive regimes, but it failed to build anything because there was no guiding force.

Without leaders, who are the powers that be going to negotiate with? Who gets invited to sit-downs at the White House or governor's mansion?

The Civil Rights Movement MLK could negotiate with LBJ to create federal legislation to dismantle segregation. I don't know if there is a federal government solution to this problem.

You need 1000s of leaders each negotiating with their local law enforcement and local governments to effect change.


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"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

would be discredited/brought down and distract from the validity of our problems

if we had an MLK equivalent today in terms of personal "demons", he'd have been skewered and people would invalidate the overall movement because it's led by someone less than perfect

if he was still alive.

There was a mistress on the radio the other day who said she is releasing a book about MLK.

back then the government was using what they know about MLK's indiscretions to get him to stop and of course he wouldn't.

there wasn't really that kind of structure set up today anyway. lots of folks were doing dirt in silence back then and no one told.

which is a good and bad thing. mostly bad because clearly we can't separate the different sides of folks

that don't have any dirt int their background to bring out?

to be investigated so people can knock them down pegs

like the ones who are anti-homosexual then get caught in sex acts w/ the same sex

or impose strong drug policy and get caught poppin pills

trying to find a squeaky clean person to me is pointless honestly. no one is clean. we need to move away from this idea that only a "good" person can do this. we keep looking for perfection in everyone-even our victims, which is exactly why cops and media go digging into past histories when there's an instance of police brutality. it's ridiculous.

or get perspective on the "bad"

some bad is awful other bad
smoking weed
its a so what?


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

and im like HELL NO
mainly b/c i don't want to do it
and also b/c i know what little indiscretions i have in my past would be thrown in my face. i don't even have a checkered past but god forbid a dude who saw me drunk at a NSBE conference gonna go running to the media about it and now i'm all of a sudden not a good candidate to tackle policy issues? FOH.

i don't want a savior, i want someone who is knowledgeable and passionate and ethical and willing to do what is right and what is best

people have fucked up ideas about who they put their trust in. they want to find someone better than themselves as a person and that's not the right way.

lots of dickheads do good shit

there's always the Obama Plan.

front your indiscretions in a tell-all book well before you announce your candidacy.

it seems to be working out for him.

when Em's character spit all the stuff the other MCs could use against him

i also think people beleiving he was a muslim kenyan helped distract from him from being seen as a wicker-chair humping weed smoker lol

>i also think people beleiving he was a muslim kenyan helped
>distract from him from being seen as a wicker-chair humping
>weed smoker lol

*sigh*
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

>to be investigated so people can knock them down pegs
>
>like the ones who are anti-homosexual then get caught in sex
>acts w/ the same sex
>
>or impose strong drug policy and get caught poppin pills
>
>trying to find a squeaky clean person to me is pointless
>honestly. no one is clean. we need to move away from this idea
>that only a "good" person can do this. we keep looking for
>perfection in everyone-even our victims, which is exactly why
>cops and media go digging into past histories when there's an
>instance of police brutality. it's ridiculous.

between like-minded groups/individuals who communicate w/each other about their efforts. you know, like on Twitter and Facebook.

maybe i'm in Portland and i see on Twitter that like-minded ppl in Spokane have done __ in their work on a cause that concerns us. i see that and decide that i or my group in Portland can do the same or something similar. so i reach out on Facebook to the Spokane group for feedback and tips. they share info and i share it w/my ppl in Portland. and we take action.

or someone tweets that at high noon on a certain date we should all do __ in a joint effort to accomplish ___. other ppl agree and/or propose __. like-minded ppl who are interested in the cause join the discussion. plans are made in various locations. boom. it's done.

no single leader involved though. and a 'network' exists.

there is not a single leader, no.

as of yet none has emerged and i think ppl have done a great job explaining why it's likely a good thing if no single leader emerges, nationally.

like not centralized and multiple redundancies. You can take any one point of it out and it would continue to operate.

I don't think the internet is "organized" but I am definitely out of my league trying to talk about such stuff.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

Or one isn't ready for it, anyway.

Plus a single person makes an easy target for smear campaigns and personality politics, which is what a lot of people involved with movements like Occupy want to get away from... if a single person tried to represent the still-frustratingly-vague aims of Occupy they'd be torn apart by the media within weeks.

You only have to look at the heat Russel Brand has been subjected to in the UK... raises his head above the parapet to represent "people's" causes and is met with jokes about his chest hair, love life and choice of vocabulary.

... eventually you need a face to associate with any movement, but I think people *should* be wary of following individuals at the moment.

What society on both sides of the pond currently needs is a mass aggregation (however that's achieved) of our generation's ideas that can be channeled into one or more actual organisations, with figureheads, that can actively campaign and electioneer for change.

The worry is that if an individual takes the helm before this aggregation happens effectively enough, we'll be back to supporting an individual's quest for fame and influence rather than the People's quest for widespread liberty and prosperity.

I talk about this same topic and need, but people love to be contrary so the conversation never really goes far.

Every Movement and Organization has a leader, I don't know why people this the current movement doesn't require one.

The only thing that is going to hold police departments and prosecutors accountable is federal oversight.

the federal oversight would occur regionally - likely via the various federal appellate court districts.

generally i think the main problem is that prosecutor/police/law enforcement bias that has the prosecutors identifying with and protecting the police defendants. and i'm not sure federal oversight is the answer since the federal prosecutors are still prosecutors who are likely to identify w/police as they too consider themselves law enforcement. plus the federal prosecutors are probably ppl who have had contact w/some of the leadership and even lower-level officers in a given jurisdiction as they rose through the ranks from state prosecutor offices before they became federal prosecutors.

i think citizen review boards should be involved in the decision to indict police defendants. i'm not sure who, if anyone, should present evidence to these boards to help them decide whether to indict.

there was a FACE of the movement, that being MLK who had considerable clout but he didn't make decisions by himself and there were always various groups within the CRM that had diff ideas/goals. sometimes they agreed sometimes they didn't. SNCC being one obvious example, the MFDP being another. So when they say there isn't a leader of the CRM they are saying there isn't just one person who you can hang your hat on and say he is the leader/he makes the decisions the way ppl did/have done with MLK.

But even in the CRM, there was an organized leadership framework and there were consistent leaders that spoke on the behalf of the movement.


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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

it's because you haven't been paying attention

And yes, there is organization. Hell a platoon of soldiers are organized, but in order to accomplish a serious mission or simple task there has to be defined leadership roles.


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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

You want someone who you can point to and say this is the Leader of the movement. that's not what's happening here so you're upset about or maybe confused or perplexed. but it's really not that hard to understand. you just choose not to

Find one that didn't have an organized leadership structure - find one in all of the history of the world?



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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

and it has an organizational structure that lobbies capital hill and state politicians daily. Try, again

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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

Even the KKK knew who MLK was because of his profile as a leader.

You want to shift from leader to organization now, but then you're denying that there actually are organizational structures in place, there's just no leader.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

>Even the KKK knew who MLK was because of his profile as a
>leader.
>
>You want to shift from leader to organization now, but then
>you're denying that there actually are organizational
>structures in place, there's just no leader.

Man WTF are you talking about, I never said the movement weren't organized.

But here's two names Michelangelo Signorile and Chad Griffin.



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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

say Sharpton and Crumb?

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

You raised Michelangelo Signorile and Chad Griffin as leaders and I asked what separates them as leaders from folk like Sharpton and Crumb. It was a random selection to try to match professions - someone on the media end and someone on the policy end.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

Man bounce because you are all over the place.


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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

again if you don't think there is it's because you aren't really paying attention.
there is not just ONE leader, ONE face of the movement.
what is so hard to grasp about this concept?

>again if you don't think there is it's because you aren't
>really paying attention.
>there is not just ONE leader, ONE face of the movement.
>what is so hard to grasp about this concept?

Ok.. I'll play down for y'all. So, tell me. where has this movement gone so far? Who's taking for the movement? Do y'all remember the Occupy Movement ad how highly organized it was, but it didn't have any cohesive leadership? Where is it now? What is the defined goal of this current movement and how will you know when the goal has been accomplished?

I can do this for a while. Maybe it's all of the leadership training that I've had both in the corporate world and the religious world.

But I'll let y'all cook.


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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

the movement(s) didn't have a singular figurehead who operated as the face of the efforts. there were/are several prominent leaders but not one single one like the BCRM had Dr. King.

my point here is that those movements didn't have a singular leader or figurehead. of course those movements had leadership. several orgs were involved and they coordinated their efforts.

i agree that a successful movement needs leadership. i don't agree that it needs a single leader or a single figurehead to be the movement's public face.

>the movement(s) didn't have a singular figurehead who
>operated as the face of the efforts. there were/are several
>prominent leaders but not one single one like the BCRM had Dr.
>King.


https://www.nwhm.org/online-exhibits/rightsforwomen/listofleaders.html

omen Who Led the Suffrage Movement

The woman suffrage movement leaders were brilliant political strategists who manipulated an intricate governmental system to achieve their goals. Movement leaders were part of a full-fledged, highly organized political movement with its own philosophers, organizers, strategists, lobbyists, fundraisers, propagandists and writers. Particularly after the turn of the 20th century, the movement functioned like a well-oiled machine, with each woman playing her own part, but contributing to the ultimate success of the whole. Like other successful political movements in the United States, suffrage had militant and moderate advocates – the militants, whose radical tactics pushed the envelope of what was socially tolerated, and the mainstream, who appeared moderate and rational by comparison. Both were necessary to the ultimate success of the movement, whose victory was accomplished without bloodshed.

List of leaders
Jane Addams
Susan Brownell Anthony
Alva Smith Vanderbilt Belmont
Alice Stone Blackwell
Harriot Stanton Blatch
Amelia Jenks Bloomer
Inez Milholland Boissevain
Olympia Brown
Lucy Burns
Nannie Helen Burroughs
Mary Ann Shadd Cary
Carrie Chapman Catt
Laura Clay
Abigail Scott Duniway
Crystal Eastman
Matilda Joslyn Gage
Charlotte Perkins Gilman
Kate M. Gordon
Sarah Moore Grimke
Frances Ellen Watkins Harper
Louisine Elder Havemeyer
Mary Garret Hay
Isabella Beecher Hooker
Julia Ward Howe
Florence Kelley
Daisy Elizabeth Adams Lampkin


Miriam Folline Leslie
Belva Ann Bennett McNall Lockwood
Anne Henrietta Martin
Katherine Dexter McCormick
Catherine Gouger Waugh McCulloch
Esther Hobart McQuigg Slack Morris
Lucretia Coffin Mott
Maud Wood Park
Alice Stokes Paul
Jeanette Pickering Rankin
Ernestine Louise Siismondi Potowski Rose
Rose Schneiderman
Caroline Maria Seymour Severance
Anna Howard Shaw
Elizabeth Cady Stanton
Lucy Stone
Mary Eliza Church Terrell
Sojourner Truth
Harriet Taylor Upton
Mabel Vernon
Angelina Grimke Weld
Ida Bell Wells-Barnett
Sue Shelton White
Frances Elizabeth Caroline Willard
Victoria Claflin Woodhull
Maud Younger
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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

the question in the OP is whether the current movement to address police brutality needs a figure head.

i say it doesn't.

i understand and agree that the women's rights/suffrage movements have/had leadership and organization and structure. i agree that those are necessary elements of a successful movement for social and political change. i don't agree that the movement needs a figure head to be its public face. i used the women's rights/suffrage movements as examples of successful efforts that didn't/don't have a singular figure head. your list of names supports that point.

This movement doesn't even have a unified message. What are its proposals? Its demands?

>This movement doesn't even have a unified message. What are
>its proposals? Its demands?


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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

it's still coming together - if it's going to.

i agree that if it's going to move it'll need some organization.

>it's still coming together - if it's going to.
>
>i agree that if it's going to move it'll need some
>organization.


^^ COT DANG! He just.... And ya'll coming at me like i'm crazy. Zoom!


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.
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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

>
>^^ COT DANG! He just.... And ya'll coming at me like i'm
>crazy. Zoom!
>
>


and i still disagree that there isn't any organization, does there need to be more effective organization, absolutely but this is still very fresh and new. but if anyone was really interested in what the current organization looks like they could find out. so for people saying there isn't any organization or any leadership or what are there demands. have you bothered to try to find out? or are you just spouting the same thing other detractors have been spouting?
and i'm not even arguing that what is going on will be successful i have no idea if it will or not.my push back is against the idea that they are just spinning their wheels and have no aim.

so for people saying there isn't any
>organization or any leadership or what are there demands.
>have you bothered to try to find out? or are you just spouting
>the same thing other detractors have been spouting?

i don't think they're interested.

or they won't be until someone they can't dethrone is seen on CNN, MSNBC, Face the Nation, This Week, Meet the Press, et al talking about the movement w/specific plans and actions and all that jazz. they can't seem to wrap their minds around the reality that the movement is organizing and moving largely on social media as it is still in its infancy stage. and that if one wants to be involved one needs to be on social media and paying attention. b/c right now the movement isn't spoon feeding the public - it's not ready for that yet. interested parties need to be a bit more active now than they will need to be if the movement grows. but as of now no single person is going to appear on TV and call everyone to gather in one place on a certain date like Dr. King w/Selma. that ain't happening w/this - not yet. and it may not ever happen. but the movement can succeed w/o that.

I just said that there needs to be some defined leadership and leadership structure.

>
>>
>>^^ COT DANG! He just.... And ya'll coming at me like i'm
>>crazy. Zoom!
>>
>>
>
>
>and i still disagree that there isn't any organization, does
>there need to be more effective organization, absolutely but
>this is still very fresh and new. but if anyone was really
>interested in what the current organization looks like they
>could find out. so for people saying there isn't any
>organization or any leadership or what are there demands.
>have you bothered to try to find out? or are you just spouting
>the same thing other detractors have been spouting?
>and i'm not even arguing that what is going on will be
>successful i have no idea if it will or not.my push back is
>against the idea that they are just spinning their wheels and
>have no aim.


.
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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

ive gone by this handle on the internet since 1999, im 100% sure motherfuckers are keeping tabs on me. if something happens to me, my kids lives are over. MAYBE their mom might get em but i have my doubts. im it. i have to & will live freely even

Remember, it's all a hive mind.



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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

no single leader of the movement to get all 50 states to issue licenses to same sex couples. yet the movement is moving. and it's headed toward the SCOTUS even though no single leader has had a sit down w/anyone in Washington about this issue. or, no single leader has had the photo op w/the White House about the issue. still, it's getting done.

there are groups involved in leading the movement though. the various lawsuits that've been filed have happened as part of a coordinated effort. but there's no single figurehead. no face of the movement. but it's moving.

But there was money coming from organizations to promote the issue. GLAAD and ADL are crucial in the dissemination of information and focusing causes imo..

A leadership structure is still necessary.

b/c that's the point.

we're discussing whether the current effort to address police brutality in the USA needs a figurehead. we agree that it needs leadership and it has that. the question is whether it needs a single person as the face of the movement.

the gay marriage effort has no single leader as the face but has had some success.

John Travolta?

lol.. but nah. You are correct a figurehead is not necessary. At the same time I do not think their is a true organized leadership either.

Who spearheads the message? who is getting the money to fund it? who is lobbying?

the movement just started moving for real a couple of months ago. it's not clear what's going to happen.

if the movement is going to succeed i suspect it'll need to get more organized. it may not need a figure head though.

agreed..

and patrons..

The difficulty I've heard from within the occupy movement was once they had someone funding them.. they then became beholden to that persons purse which then defeats the entire purpose of the movement..

The Tea Party, on the other hand...

Well the tea party is much better funded..

but in the end.. how much does the "movement" even have a say in what is happening? It's basically the Koch bros using the guise of a populist movement to wield their bidding.. and in the end people who would not have had any chance in elections before because of their ridiculous views can be pushed into "power".

But what actually happens is they jam up govt so the Koch's can keep on cookin

Marriage is fundamentally a state's right, so individualized movements make the most sense. You are, however, making compelling arguments for a decentralized model.

by SCOTUS on a national level b/c there's a circuit split in the federal courts that have dealt w/challenges to the various states' refusal to issue the licenses. those states are sued in federal court which makes the issue federal. when appealed those decisions go to federal appellate courts. the various courts have split on how they decide the issue.

also there is federal implication via the Full Faith and Credit Clause, i believe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_Faith_and_Credit_Clause). generally the various states recognize each others' marriage licenses but when it comes to same sex licenses some states have refused to recognize those of other states. that causes a federal problem (though the issue is unclear as of yet).

but anyway, yeah...it's a state's rights issue that has federal implications.

previous leaders. Also gay marriage has the benefit of some very popular spokespeople, as well as a much more positive image of gay people in the media, even touting "gays in the neighborhood" as beneficial. If the media were still indoctrinating people with the idea that gay men and women were sexual deviant who were after children, things wouldn't be going as well. Most of the "faces of gay" portrayed in the gay marriage movement are still white faces. Meanwhile we have otherwise seemingly reasonable people losing their shit over a Black James Bond as a abomination of the fictitious character.


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Keep Penis Clean Or Find Genital Spots

just not a figure head.

there's no one playing the role of Dr. King meeting w/Obama in the White House pushing the prez on this issue. there have been several ppl doing the work on many different levels all in a concerted effort as happens w/all movements that succeed. but no figure head. no public face. no one name comes to mind when i think about the movement like Dr. King's name is associated w/the BCRM.

The movement has become more organized and more focused. Prior to that it was the recognition of civil unions and domestic partnerships. There are figureheads but it's now in the form of companies ororganizations instead of one specific individual. Yet the modus operandi hasn't changed. It is still a group of people making the decisions.

If you think about it Malcolm and Martin were brands, they were the corporations. They were advised and controlled what information people knew. Their image didn't exactly equate to who they were as people. Having an organization as the figurehead of a movement eliminates a large portion of the faliable human element. An example of that is the Susan G Komen/Planned Parenthood issue from 2012. The founder/CEO stepped down but is still in a leadership position. The company still survives as a figurehead for the fight against breast cancer.

We need a leader, but it needs to be a different kind of leader.
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Keep Penis Clean Or Find Genital Spots

or, to be honest, mandela as president deciding to 'reconcile'

and 20 yrs later blk folks' status barely moving the needle




so explain why else this movement needs a leader

More people feel as if they are making progress because they associate acknowledgement with acceptance.

As long as there is no universal goals with no leaders to focus the various movements it will continue to be a nationwide series of photo opportunities with a lot of needless repetition and no blueprint. These small victories that people claim are leading to what? It's still business as usual with an occasional disruption.

I believe that it actually boils down to two things. People are no longer willing to be really uncomfortable in order to accomplish a long-range goal without a guarantee that it will happen in X amount of time; and people are not willing to trust anyone to lead them if they feel that their ideas or methods differ. Those being led must have humility, trust, and be willing to compromise. These days those who have the ability to lead are being torn down by the envy and jealousy of those around them who can't. They put up unnecessary roadblocks to keep the leaders from leading.

So we want to bring down the current leaders but we don't trust leadership enough to allow anybody to lead us. We are ok with local leadership but become suspicious of anybody whose message appeals to too many people and gets too widespread, even if it's the same message.
Let someone rise through the ranks. By the time s/he reached a place where s/he could change things on a national level s/he would have to deal with the people they started with attempting to discredit them.

Any leader that shows up will probably come from a religious institution of some sort. Not because they are any more qualified but because they already have a strong base of people who are willing to be led and most of them are willing to elevate their leader to the next position, at least for awhile anyway.

You can't develop a strong, active following over social media. What type of following is more active than one that shows up at least once a week, month after month, year after year, that not only isn't paid to do so but donates their money for the privilege of that person's time/knowledge without coercion?



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Keep Penis Clean Or Find Genital Spots

support the movement.

which is whatever. do you i guess but

are we about the movement/cause or so-called leaders?

as someone previously stated even those 'faces' of movements didn't work on their own
and weren't necessarily even the 'leaders' they were the voice and the face but didn't make
decisions on their own.

the past has shown us that having a visible leader (or leaders) is dangerous to the actual movement.

look at what happened to the civil rights movement of the 50s/60s
look at what happened to the black liberation movements of the 70s
when you have 'leaders' its too easy to throw the movement off by discrediting, arresting or killing the 'leader'
when people find their positions and act accordingly
among several 'leaders' coming together and networking etc
there's less of a chance of crushing the movement by getting rid of a few folks.

but maybe i'm bugging.

.

be the leader you seek.

be the organizer.

you see what's needed - take action.

the protests are only a piece of the movement
you gotta place yourself IN the movement by networking and understanding the goals
and find out who is working towards what.
the fact of the matter is your voice is just as important as any 'leaders' voice
and that's the point of their not being one leader of the whole movement.

i personally have not been to any of the marches or protests bc i'm not
really into that level of protest at this stage of my life
(having a kid i've decided i'm better suited using my music as activism and supporting
those who are protesting etc. by donating where i can and spreading the word.
i personally don't want to risk injury, death or arrest when i'm the only
one available to raise my child right now)

through twitter i have been connected with a few folks who are on the ground
and they are indeed making connections with folks nationwide and internationally
trying to exact change.

for example today in the bay area several different groups, representing all walks of life
are protesting in oakland. you can follow @mrdaveyd right now to see his breakdown of what is currently happening there.

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Keep Penis Clean Or Find Genital Spots

What type of specific goal is the movement focused on?
It appears to be focused on changing minds instead of changing laws.
People agree that reform is necessary but don't agree on what that means and what successful reform looks like. So far it's an idea that is dangerously close to fizzling.

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Keep Penis Clean Or Find Genital Spots

I have a focused set of goals.

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Keep Penis Clean Or Find Genital Spots

http://blacklivesmatter.com/demands/

http://www.wetheprotesters.org/#/page-6/

A reduction in spending can be a dollar or 1%,
And "brought to justice" means what? Who gets to decide what that means? It's not specific, it is a list of ideas.

It is not the same as saying that they will advocate for a 20% decrease in law enforcement spending on weapons funding instead of say, community outreach. They can decrease spending to decreasing the law enforcement officers that work in the black communities or the poorest communities that probably need them the most. They can allow private donations to fund their spending. They can also decrease their numbers and allow officers to work for private citizens who pay for their own private security. There are already organizations who are pushing for privatization of the police force, so...

i bet you never clicked the second link.

So far it's largely a list showing a national movement focused on changes being made in Missouri and in reaction to Michael Brown. There is one very specific national goal on there:

"We believe that the United States Congress should pass the “End Racial Profiling”(H. 2851, S. 1038) legislation introduced by Representative Conyers and Senator Cardin"

Otherwise it's neither very specific not very national. Besides firing Officers and Chiefs does not prevent them from being rehired as demonstrated here:

http://www.eurweb.com/2015/01/fired-cop-who-cut-out-detained-womans-weave-gets-job-back/

Not one of those demands says anything about police unions which have a far greater role in bad officers being retained on the force than anything mentioned in that list. I would love to agree with your assessment of this movement, but I don't.
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Keep Penis Clean Or Find Genital Spots

occupy wall street was a wake up call

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

no structure, no leadership, no lobbying, no agenda, longevity no results

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Keep Penis Clean Or Find Genital Spots

and yea it was definitely a clusterfuck of just people sitting around yelling.
i don't find that to be the case with this movement at all.
but again i'm not looking for leaders i'm looking at what's actually happening.
there have been people who have met with the president for this movement
can't say the same for occupy wall street.

guess thats why the gov't got so eager the take them down


no results
are you fucking kidding me?

Oprah doesn't see results for the current movement either
people see what they want to see
thats also really apparent
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

and in fact that format of protest has had significant results in Spain where it originated i.e. coming out of the occupation & related media activity came the formation of Podemos - n youth-led, alternative, left-leaning party, which has now become the main opposition to the current government, and has managed to galvanize support from the previously apathetic/unsatisfied/disillusioned electorate.

i don't know the specifics of OWS but I think that there is political potential for a loose, rhizomatic network, even if OWS appears to be unsuccesful (although how is this measured?)

>no structure, no leadership, no lobbying, no agenda,
>longevity no results

I see no evidence that OWS had any lasting political impact. If others, more informed than I can speak to its impact, I'm more than ready to concede. Instead I get dismissive "if you don't know" type answers.

Its hipster activism. They either want people who're completely plugged in or people who will blindly follow.

not sure how you got "you don't know" from my response.

my point was, whether even if OWS itself was not successful (although again, I don't know how one would measure that) the same model can lead to more meaningful change, so I don't think it's helpful to say that it's the poster child & all these types of leader-less movements are pointless.

>I see no evidence that OWS had any lasting political impact.
>If others, more informed than I can speak to its impact, I'm
>more than ready to concede. Instead I get dismissive "if you
>don't know" type answers.
>
>Its hipster activism. They either want people who're
>completely plugged in or people who will blindly follow.

I just replied under you. Mea culpa.

>support the movement.


right

from black lives matter

to dream defenders

there are organizations across the country that are regional

and there also has long been a list of demands

the 2 females that organized the million march in NYC have been very high profile since that success

the organization and leading is being done of a very local scale

I think what you are alluding to is a national organization

which I agree, the movement could benefit from

but as far as leaders

this movement doesn't lack for that

IMO

when i use the term 'leader' in this post i mean mostly like a trademark face
but all of the people who are taking the initiative to organize around this cause are leaders

I believe Synead Nichols and Umaara Elliott were credited as the lead organizers for the millions march in NYC on 12/13

which is an illustration of what can be achieved when the established organizations come together under one banner

and if that march is any example of the media's portrayal of this movement

I wouldn't expect the media to crown a face for the movement any time soon...

have no idea the other movements these same people have been a part of and gave support to these movements

people laughed at Obama when he said he was a community organizer
folks have no damn clue

those folks have helped me in big and small ways all of my life
but since its not in the papers and in their particular face
they pay no attention and "it doesn't count"
smh*
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Trayvon Martin murder

I think the common perception is that it just popped up after the Michael Brown murder

i.e., these organizations and efforts have been underway the entire time

If you don't know who they are and that frustrates you, just say it. Because all this hand wringing makes you look old, out of touch, or lazy. Which some of you definitely are. No shade.

Ol hipster-ass activism. The people, not just the plugged-in activists, but the people...you know, the old out of touch people need to know who the leaders are and which orgs to support.

during the civil rights movement and black liberation movement it wasn't EVERYBODY involved. just sit it out. let those who are willing do what they can.

people are pointing out throughout this post what is being done and somehow none of it is clear enough for you or you disagree. if that is the case then maybe this movement is not for you to try to become a part of
people have named names and posted links
do your part now and either navigate the proper channels figure out what you can do to help or just sit it out.

nothing smug or dismissive in that.
if thats how you take it at this point i have to just assume youre trolling.

>just sit it out. let those who are willing do what they can

>>just sit it out. let those who are willing do what they can

its advice
go do your homework
and get back to folks on what you claim doesnt exist
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

>>>just sit it out. let those who are willing do what they
>can
>
>its advice
>go do your homework
>and get back to folks on what you claim doesnt exist

If the people have to do their homework to find you, you clearly aren't making your presence known. Awareness is a key element of any movement. MiQl and Astralblack have implied that these orgs have to operate with a certain amount of secrecy. I can see and understand that, but it's going to be hard for these causes to reach critical mass without orgs operating in the mainstream with a higher level of transparency.


and sometimes where you fit in is donating money, but I want to know who's doing what and where to give. Sometimes I feel like you people are being deliberately obtuse. The cause needs people who are casually involved as much as it needs soldiers. There are more of the former.

>If the people have to do their homework to find you, you
>clearly aren't making your presence known. Awareness is a key
>element of any movement. MiQl and Astralblack have implied
>that these orgs have to operate with a certain amount of
>secrecy. I can see and understand that, but it's going to be
>hard for these causes to reach critical mass without orgs
>operating in the mainstream with a higher level of
>transparency.

B) the underground railroad had to operate in secrecy because it was technically a criminal enterprise


The movement is going to have its secret squirrel weathermen element. That's all well and good, but it also needs to pull in Daquan the barber and Keisha from the call center and Malik from accounting...you know, regular ass niggas who don't have the time and energy to go all in, but want to help nonetheless. And you definitely don't want to alienate them.

lotta these niggas on here and those that be heading these movements be too "above it all" to dissimenate info to "middle manager" type niggas

like just cause we gotta wear slacks to work they acting like we punks

and the movement is moving on social media.

*shrugs*

And I'm not sure which half

If you're concerned about the content, check their sources.

>>>>just sit it out. let those who are willing do what they
>>can
>>
>>its advice
>>go do your homework
>>and get back to folks on what you claim doesnt exist
>
>If the people have to do their homework to find you, you
>clearly aren't making your presence known.


No you're lazy and uninformed


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

I'm here to get information. Do you have some? You post like you have information yet seemingly have no desire to share it. If you were really about a movement you would be trying to educate as many people as possible. That's what movement's are. Instead, you're up in here calling me names. Me, who's on the same side as you, and looking for places to help. Your elitism isn't going to move the people.\

Can you imagine any member of the black civil rights movement calling someone who asked for information lazy and uninformed? If you're so informed, help a brother out.

So much of that info is buried in twitter and tumblr.
Me and a couple people are working to open up that data so it's more accessible.



>Ol hipster-ass activism. The people, not just the plugged-in
>activists, but the people...you know, the old out of touch
>people need to know who the leaders are and which orgs to
>support.

I didn't have time to dig and find out what reputable orgs I could hook up with, so I ended up not going (I was only free that weekend).

http://github.com/blkops/orgs

It's an ongoing project that anyone is welcome to contribute to.
If anyone needs help on learning Git or Github, hit me up @miql.
Accessibility is important.
Your case justifies our efforts.
Thanks for sharing that.

If you can supply ideas, give me/us a shout on that, too.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=12660678&mesg_id=12660678&listing_type=search


I asked on twitter too. I had a very short window of opportunity and zero prep time.

For protest events, check out http://fergusonresponse.tumblr.com

But you see the problem already, right?

That's what the whole blkops thing is focused on hacker ethics:
-Sharing
-Openness
-Decentralization

You're running into the same problems many other have (and me!) who want to help, but aren't dialed in like everyone else.
Currently working on a protest map app, will eventually export the resources to an actual DB.
Lots of work to do.
HALP.

you knew the cause, location and date for action

but decided not to go

because you couldn't track down a reputable organization's presence?

I find that really, really strange

and I can guarantee that if you had made that trip

it would have answered alot of questions for you.

If you think it's reasonable for me to leave my wife a home with a 3 year old and a 2 MONTH old, and drive 9 hours just to walk the streets of Ferguson without a plan, I don't know what to tell you.

http://www.answercoalition.org/

I've participated in a few demonstrations the last half of last year

I think what you are asking for is a bit irrational

i.e., posting all aspects of a planned protest on the internet, etc...

I mean, you can see how that could be a problem, right?

but from the organizations that I came in contact with

ANSWER was the only one that had permits, routes, etc...posted

They are pretty explicit about their demands and course of actions

they also had members of the national lawyers guild present

but meeting all of the requirements for a legal demonstration also means their participation and activity is alot more infrequent

http://www.answercoalition.org/protest_and_resistance_on_jan_15_19_martin_luther_king_jr_holiday_weekend#events

I'm not sure if 9 hours from Ferguson has you anywhere near these events

but MLK day is a national event for the movement

and, to my knowledge, all organizations are coming to together under that banner

Yeah, the organizations that have daily demonstrations are a lot more risky

i.e., they are operating in the mode of civil disobediance

which is probably the model being used in Ferguson

I would imagine it's probably very difficult to get permits for demonstrations in Ferguson post the no bill

let alone post routes and recruit attendees

as far as being a parent and/or husband

that is what has alot of people out there in the first place

they want change before their family falls victim to legalized murder

so if you genuinely fear for your freedom and/or safety

I would suggest staying home.

part of the point of the protests is that the justice system in this country in unjust

operating within the parameters of that unjust system is an unreasonable request for protests/demonstrations against it, IMO

Did you try to contact them?

Because it's a website. a dotcom, at that. What's the org behind it? Who are the people?

Darnell L Moore is a writer and activist who lives in Brooklyn, NY. He is a faculty member in the Africana Studies program at Vassar College. He and Patrisse Cullors were co-organizers of the Black Lives Matter Ride to Ferguson, Missouri. Darnell's writing and activism broadly examines notions of race, gender, and sexuality.

His scholarship examines the intersections of queer subjectivities and race, and queer Black Christian thought. He currently teaches courses on race and the prison industrial complex at Vassar College. Additionally, he is a founding partner, with Wade Davis II, of You Belong, an organization that offers LGBTQ and straight-allied youth a series of 3-day comprehensive sports instruction and leadership development clinics. He is a managing editor of The Feminist Wire, and his writing appears frequently in The Advocate, Ebony, The Root, Out, and many other venues.

Darnell was appointed by Mayor Cory A. Booker as the inaugural chair of the City of Newark Advisory Commission on LGBTQ Concerns. He is also co-chair of the Queer Newark: Our Voices, Our Histories project. He was also a member of the first US delegation of LGBTQ scholars/cultural workers to the Palestinian territories. He holds an M.A. in Clinical Counseling from Eastern University and an M.A. in Theological Studies from Princeton Theological Seminary.


**Here's another name: ALICIA GARZA**

Alicia Garza is the Special Projects Director for the National Domestic Workers Alliance. She has been the recipient of multiple awards for her organizing work in Black and Latino communities, receiving the Local Hero award from the San Francisco Bay Guardian and the Jeanne Gauna Communicate Justice award from the Center for Media Justice in 2008. She has twice been honored by the Harvey Milk Democratic Club with the Bayard Rustin Community Activist award for her work fighting gentrification and environmental racism in San Francisco’s largest remaining Black community.

Alicia comes to NDWA after serving as Executive Director of People Organized to Win Employment Rights (POWER) in San Francisco since 2009. Under her leadership, POWER won free local public transportation for youth; fought for a seat at the table in some of the most important land use decisions affecting working-class families; beat back regressive local policies targeting undocumented people; organized against the chronic police violence in Black neighborhoods; and shed light on the ongoing wave of profit-driven development that contribute to a changing San Francisco.

In 2013, Alicia co-founded #BlackLivesMatter, an online platform developed after the murder of Trayvon Martin, designed to connect people interested in learning more about and fighting back against anti-Black racism.

Alicia currently serves on the Board of Directors for the School of Unity and Liberation (SOUL) in Oakland, California, and is a contributing writer for WarTimes magazine. She serves as trusted counsel for organizations across the country looking to build their capacity to lead and win organizing campaigns. When she’s not scheming on freedom, Alicia enjoys dancing, reading and writing—and scheming some more.

>Darnell L Moore is a writer and activist who lives in
>Brooklyn, NY. He is a faculty member in the Africana Studies
>program at Vassar College. He and Patrisse Cullors were
>co-organizers of the Black Lives Matter Ride to Ferguson,
>Missouri. Darnell's writing and activism broadly examines
>notions of race, gender, and sexuality.
>
>His scholarship examines the intersections of queer
>subjectivities and race, and queer Black Christian thought. He
>currently teaches courses on race and the prison industrial
>complex at Vassar College. Additionally, he is a founding
>partner, with Wade Davis II, of You Belong, an organization
>that offers LGBTQ and straight-allied youth a series of 3-day
>comprehensive sports instruction and leadership development
>clinics. He is a managing editor of The Feminist Wire, and his
>writing appears frequently in The Advocate, Ebony, The Root,
>Out, and many other venues.
>
>Darnell was appointed by Mayor Cory A. Booker as the inaugural
>chair of the City of Newark Advisory Commission on LGBTQ
>Concerns. He is also co-chair of the Queer Newark: Our Voices,
>Our Histories project. He was also a member of the first US
>delegation of LGBTQ scholars/cultural workers to the
>Palestinian territories. He holds an M.A. in Clinical
>Counseling from Eastern University and an M.A. in Theological
>Studies from Princeton Theological Seminary.
>
>
>**Here's another name: ALICIA GARZA**
>
>Alicia Garza is the Special Projects Director for the National
>Domestic Workers Alliance. She has been the recipient of
>multiple awards for her organizing work in Black and Latino
>communities, receiving the Local Hero award from the San
>Francisco Bay Guardian and the Jeanne Gauna Communicate
>Justice award from the Center for Media Justice in 2008. She
>has twice been honored by the Harvey Milk Democratic Club with
>the Bayard Rustin Community Activist award for her work
>fighting gentrification and environmental racism in San
>Francisco’s largest remaining Black community.
>
>Alicia comes to NDWA after serving as Executive Director of
>People Organized to Win Employment Rights (POWER) in San
>Francisco since 2009. Under her leadership, POWER won free
>local public transportation for youth; fought for a seat at
>the table in some of the most important land use decisions
>affecting working-class families; beat back regressive local
>policies targeting undocumented people; organized against the
>chronic police violence in Black neighborhoods; and shed light
>on the ongoing wave of profit-driven development that
>contribute to a changing San Francisco.
>
>In 2013, Alicia co-founded #BlackLivesMatter, an online
>platform developed after the murder of Trayvon Martin,
>designed to connect people interested in learning more about
>and fighting back against anti-Black racism.
>
>Alicia currently serves on the Board of Directors for the
>School of Unity and Liberation (SOUL) in Oakland, California,
>and is a contributing writer for WarTimes magazine. She serves
>as trusted counsel for organizations across the country
>looking to build their capacity to lead and win organizing
>campaigns. When she’s not scheming on freedom, Alicia enjoys
>dancing, reading and writing—and scheming some more.

Your breadth and depth of knowledge is far greater than mine regarding the movement.

But I'm not sure how to navigate this joint lol.

sidenote: I need to write a help doc.

What you'll have to do is register an account on Github: http://github.com
Then download a git client that let's you push your changes.
What OS are you on?

Here's some basic github clients to try:

http://windows.github.com
http://mac.github.com

Just hit me up and I can follow-up on how to add the repo to get you up and running.
Should be fairly painless.

this is a nice starting point.

>If you don't know who they are and that frustrates you, just
>say it. Because all this hand wringing makes you look old, out
>of touch, or lazy. Which some of you definitely are. No
>shade.



YEP
i'm not going to sit here and say i know either
but damnit this in here?
i at least know that much there are people THERE and WORKING
this is as bad as the gentrification erasure
what you dont like police protection or regular public transportation

MOTHERFUCKERS PEOPLE HAVE BEEN FIGHTING FOR THIS SHIT ALL ALONG
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Three quick points

#1 We keep judging this movement by the end product of 30 years of the CRM. Give it time to mature.

#2 Plenty of "organized" movements with visible leadership fail every day. So that can't be the sole barometer of success.

#3 If we did a search of pop culture literature of early days of the CRM, there are probably plenty of articles about the lack of leadership of the CRM.

...

There has been protests and it has been building...to more protests. It's not just 6 months. It's probably closer to 15 years of people protesting. If we add riots we can start the counting at the ones sparked from MLKs assasination. I disagree with it being only 6 months, but it is the latest and it is unfortunately starting to lose steam among the non-black twitter crowd.
________________________________________
Keep Penis Clean Or Find Genital Spots

>There has been protests and it has been building...to more
>protests. It's not just 6 months. It's probably closer to 15
>years of people protesting. If we add riots we can start the
>counting at the ones sparked from MLKs assasination. I
>disagree with it being only 6 months, but it is the latest and
>it is unfortunately starting to lose steam among the non-black
>twitter crowd.
>________________________________________
>Keep Penis Clean Or Find Genital Spots

>Three quick points
>
>#1 We keep judging this movement by the end product of 30
>years of the CRM. Give it time to mature.
>
>#2 Plenty of "organized" movements with visible leadership
>fail every day. So that can't be the sole barometer of
>success.
>
>#3 If we did a search of pop culture literature of early days
>of the CRM, there are probably plenty of articles about the
>lack of leadership of the CRM.


exactly

yall are unbelievable

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Evolve the movement where you see fit.
I find that more effective than arguing from an Oprah perspective.

We're starting to compile resources.
Everyone is more than welcome to contribute:

http://github.com/blkops

and it's more deliberate than you seem to understand

and NO, OWS was NOT the beginning

and LOFL if you think BLM, OWS, LGBT, and radical academic feminism have changed nothing, LOFL

>and it's more deliberate than you seem to understand
>
>and NO, OWS was NOT the beginning
>
>and LOFL if you think BLM, OWS, LGBT, and radical academic
>feminism have changed nothing, LOFL

good luck trying
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

and go from there.

http://thedemands.org
http://wetheprotesters.org

Those are good *starting points* to see what they're doing, who they are, how you can help, where you can help, etc.

since the 60s and offers true and genuine leadership no airplay.

I don't believe I have the answers. That's why I've come here to seek them, or at least help make better sense of what's happening on the ground. I appreciate everyone who took the time to reply openly and honestly.

Maybe I DO have to start the organization I'm looking for.

What I want is an org with a clear stated mission: federal oversight for all police-involved killings. I don't believe local prosecutors are any more capable of trying police shootings than they were lynchings. I want an organization that actually registers as a non-profit, discloses its headquarters and officers. An organization that's actually accountable. No one had to wonder who the SCLC, SNCC, NOI or Black Panthers were.

I don't think of myself as a leader of men. Frankly, it's nothing I've wanted. I just want to support the existing thing. If such an org exists, and I'm missing it, I'd appreciate it if one of you would point me in the right direction. If your answer is "you're lazy", you, my friend are part of the problem. The Black Civil rights movement was inclusive and sought to educate. It didn't put people down for not doing the legwork. If someone asks for information about a subject in which I have knowledge, I'm going to share it, not ridicule them for not being me.

If someone asks for information about a
>subject in which I have knowledge, I'm going to share it, not
>ridicule them for not being me.

it was for you being so adamant that their wasn't any type of leadership/organization and even when people gave you answers you still didn't want to hear it.

MiQl was the only person who provided me with any meaningful information. (Goldmind did offer a couple profiles after I took him to task for his condescension).

Here's the thing, there still isn't a great degree of transparency out there. I researched some of the orgs from the link miQl so graciously provided and this is what I found:

http://dreamdefenders.org/vest/about-us/
http://blacklivesmatter.com/about/
http://operationhelporhush.org/category/blog/
http://millennialau.tumblr.com/
https://twitter.com/FF_STL


I hope these orgs are doing great work, but other than Operation Help or hush which exists to help protesters from other organizations (a noble cause) these groups have vague mission statements and zero transparency. They don't list any officers or information about where they're based. I don't think that's a meaningful way to build a coalition.

What I took away from MiQl's post were these three organizations are doing meaning ful work with transparency

http://www.gatheringforjustice.org/about
http://colorofchange.org/about/#
http://www.mhoodies.org/about

This is incredibly useful information, and it came from one reply in this 100+ reply post. And immediately thanked him for the info. I don't see how you got "people provided you with information that you willfully ignored" from that. Go back and re-read the post. You'll find far more snark and condescension than meaningful information from those in the know.

Folks seem to get their jollies from being holier -than-thou on these types of issues. Damn shame.

There are only really three or four people behaving like that and they're the usual suspects. I'd also like to thank Bentagian for being helpful.

the MiQL post is dope, I didn't know anybody on here was doing something like that

my thanks as well

and I agree, that there does need to be definded leadership

to organize the many movements

into a co-ordinated effort

and I think that should be the next step

a co-ordinated nationwide action

maybe not a march on DC, but something akin

anyway, here's a list for you:

Dante Barry of Million Hoodies;
Tory Russell, co-founder of Hands Up United;
Ashley Yates of Millennial Activists United;
Alicia Garza of Black Lives Matter;
Montague Simmons of Organization for Black Struggle;
Synead Nichols and Umaara Elliott of Millions March NYC;
New Abolitionist Association

but here's what we have thus far:


Twitter
-Brownblaze
-akacharleswade
-deray
-ShordeeDooWhop
-MusicOverPeople
-Awkward_Duck
-Tory Russell
-Phillip B. Agnew
-Tef Poe/FootKlan
-Dante Barry
https://github.com/blkops/orgs#leaders

Will definitely add
>Montague Simmons of Organization for Black Struggle;
>Synead Nichols and Umaara Elliott of Millions March NYC;
>New Abolitionist Association

8 members thus far.
Half dudes.
Half women.
All B/black.

Hoping to release some real good shyt soon.
You're more than welcome to join to help create
'til then, I'll keep you all updated.

https://github.com/blkops

which has got to be as cool a platform as it is non-user friendly

http://revolt.tv/news/the-new-leaders-of-social-justice/76D0BEA0-6BE4-49F7-BCB7-77FEE0927803

http://revolt.tv/news/new-leaders-pt.-2/17A2DB39-E6DC-498C-BED8-56691EA9C34C

maybe REVOLT lurks?