to end the drug trade by only dating people who had nothing to
do with it?

What if drug dealers found out that they would get no play if
women found out what they did for a living?

My simple theory says that the drug trade would be hurt
significantly. Why --- because women hold that control over
men. At a man's essence is his fulfillment of himself through
interaction with a woman. He defines himself by those
relationships. Almost everything a man does that is proactive
in some way is motivated by a woman. Most men pick their
careers, their looks, their cars and homes based on their
interactions with women and the the results they wish to gain
from women. What if women decided that drug dealing was
unacceptable and other things such as education held the keys
to their hearts, minds and everything else that follows? I bet
all that I have that brothers would be lined up outside of
colleges nationwide...

(...the homicide rate in Baltimore City, where I live, is just
crazy. We are now at 1 black youth a day, dead from the drug
trade. I started thinking: what is a better persuader than
money? Women and on a more direct level - Sex. Has it worked
in the past? Yeah, thinking of all the wealthy and powerful
men either brought down or built up because of it...and my
mind came up with a simple equation: drug trade - women (their
time and their sex) = emptiness because what real value does
material things have for a man if he can't use them to attract
a woman?)

What do you think? 

There will always be a market for drugs. I just think that
drug dealing as a profession would fall off tremendously if
women decided to change the culture around by simply opting
out of it. I mean, a song like "Soldier" is
basically the equivalent of voter registration for young black
man. I can hear it now - "Destiny's Child or some girl
that looks like Beyonce would want me if I was a soldier. How
do I get the stuff to be considered a soldier?"

On the gay thing, I can't speak...not hating, but I'm strictly
for the ladies :)
 

 :)

lol

Great idea... unfortunately... they are the very reason why
most cats hustle.  Women love money, fast cars... and a man
who can do anything on a whim.  Yup... most people hustle for
the love of the ladies... a damn shame but true.

what would make a women value a man beyond what he could give
her? what would make her value him for just being himself? If
there is an answer to this question, it needs to be taught all
boys, even before the age of reason.

from birth on up.

if kids had more of that, 99% of 'em wouldn't be in the messes they're in.

*shrug*


~~~~
~fear is the mind-killer~

"...jesus had a wife. and she was his
messiah like that stranger may be
yours. who holds the subtle knife that
carves through worlds like magic
doors." ~saul wms

If your mom didn't give you life would you still value her/
If she didn't take care of you?

Why are women expected to love for nothing in return?

Dating a broke man you you accept is alot harder than dating a
wealthy man who you can accept?

I advise all women to date for the future, not for the
temporary fluffy feeling of love. Marry/Date/Reproduce for
your generations, your legacy and your true happiness.

Nothing wrong with a man who can hustle. Drugs just happen to
be illegal

I am strange guy...I actually dealt with all of my girlfriends
as if they could be my wife and the mother of my children. I
always looked at dating and especially sex as something very
serious so I never quite got the player thing. The
implications of emotions, material things and sex were things
I really thought about and communicated with the women I
dated. So my value of women was/is very high. I always thought
women ruled the world but for some reason, always allowed men
to take the credit. And this was before you added the whole
"bearer of life" thing.

Answering your question: I'm not asking women to love men who
give nothing in return. That would be supporting abuse. That's
not what I'm talking about. I'm saying what if women raised
the bar of who they selected to be with for the long or short
time and not date drug dealers. Appeal to the man, not what he
does. A man who hustles hard on the street has the same
ability to hustle hard in a corporate environment or in his
own business, etc. Appeal to his person, his humanity. I
believe women have the power (individual and collectively) to
change men. I've seen it too many times first hand to not
believe in the power of a women.

Back to your question: I'm not saying go without. I'll
actually asking you to up the ante. If you want to talk about
building a community and the foundation and legacy of a
family, drug dealing has no place in that. It tears
down...eventually the family loses to the world of the drug
trade, sometimes in a big way (somebody dies). That's what I
want to stop happening...what if women only dated men that got
their hustle on another way?

Missing the point all together.  Which may be the problem all
together.

>Women love money, fast cars... and a man
>who can do anything on a whim.  

Not me and I know lots of women who just want a real/stable
relationship.  I must admit that my Pops supplemented his
income selling a little weed on the side while working for the
gubment and he attracted all kinds of crazy women but that's
not the norm...or it shouldn't be.

Does my theory hold any weight? Have women started a
conversation about leaving the drug dealer alone? Having a
stable relationship usually means picking someone who will be
around long enough to grow with you, have a family, etc. These
boys here in B-more are dying particular between 12 and 18
years of age...I won't touch the brothers that are jailed.
Those numbers are heartbreaking. I guess I saying we (men)
can't do this alone - meaning turning our community around.
For all of our MLKs and Malcolm Xs, it was the women who did
the real work...it's you everytime...doing the work but not
getting the credit. What if women set the agenda this time and
led the movement?

>Does my theory hold any weight? 

Well, yeah.  I think perception is the problem and worse how
girls are conditioned.  Some of us live in a fantasy world as
far as looking for a guy or mate to take care of our material
or financial needs.  Another issue I was talking about to my
best friend the other day concerned fatherless girls who often
try to live out fantasies about men and what they need
emotionally, financially, etc.  I use the word fantasy because
their expectations are sometimes unrealistic and based on
material needs.  We sometimes lower our expectations because
of low self-esteem, self-worth or lack of security/stability.

>I guess I saying we (men)
>can't do this alone - meaning turning our community
around.
>For all of our MLKs and Malcolm Xs, it was the women who
did
>the real work...it's you everytime...doing the work but
not
>getting the credit. What if women set the agenda this time
and
>led the movement?

Some of us are working on it. ;)

great, we need you (@Jill Scott) :)

I had the SAME conversation with my wife a couple of years
ago....

I don't have the time to enguage this post, but great topic.

I've been talking with my wife about this (checking to see how
crazy or plausible the theory was) and she added another
element: what if women decided that since life comes through
them, they were going to be more responsible with who they
chose to sleep with i.e. if he's only interested in having
sex, he's probably not the one...or if he deals drugs, why
would I want to set myself up to possibly be a single mother?

n/m

..nah i think convincing women to not be attracted to power
and wealth is a better idea.

..dunno but its more likely than getting the U.S. or any
government to give up its war on drugs.

(...the homicide rate in Baltimore City, where I live, is
just crazy. We are now at 1 black youth a day, dead from the
drug trade.

Ending Prohibition would be good in that the trade would be
crippled by the free market but there is always something that
is in demand and illegal. That said, you'll probably make a
lot of money real fast and still die real young so it might be
replacing one thing for another. You've got to take the spark
out of it for a man. And for some strange reason, that spark
always ignites brightest when adding up to: how can I get HER?

.

women or no women

it's a little deeper than that. that might stop a few--the ones who are already committed to someone, etc--but it damn sure ain't gonna stop 'em all.

the only thing i know that's stopped former hustlers i've known is

1. the birth of a child
2. they were ready to give it up
3. life change/spiritual reasons
4. close call w/ the law and/or jail time

or some combination thereof.


~~~~
~fear is the mind-killer~

"...jesus had a wife. and she was his
messiah like that stranger may be
yours. who holds the subtle knife that
carves through worlds like magic
doors." ~saul wms

------------------------------

“The Negro pays for what he wants and begs for what he needs.” -Kelly Miller

And not all of them are thugs either.


"I liked it," Gilliam said of playing gunner on punt team. "It was the first time I did anything like that. It was fun. It felt like, if he wasn't fair catching it, he was disrespecting me, so I was trying to take a head off if I could." Response-ability

Hunger will make you do a lot of things but...if your girlfriend frowned on you eating off of other people's habits and bloodshed enough to quit you and leave you by yourself...and you tried to get with other females and they responded to you the same way, you would get the message: I got to find another way to eat.

..aye but it's not the way to solve world wide drug problems as was proposed at the top.

it's small and simple but sometimes that's all it takes...i'm talking about motivation...serious motivation. Being a man, I know hunger and celibacy. Clarity of focus is the result of both but which one is stronger? Life without food may be a short one but life without loving can be wretchedly long...even millionaires have attested to that. So it comes back to our relationship with the ladies...add the drug trade and it really is a dangerous combination. For instance, there's been an incredible outgrowth of strippers here in B-more, too. Where did that come from? Some say hunger...but maybe it's the relationship factor again?

..are you referring that question to me, what do i think? that's a change in society and the things that society values.

We value our women on poles or is that what they think we want from them?

do it because its a necessity

the rest do it because the can't make as much money as they would like from the alternatives

------------------------------

“The Negro pays for what he wants and begs for what he needs.” -Kelly Miller

I agree...but why would a man want to make more money on the street as supposed to working at a McDonald's? My sex life wasn't disturbed at all because I flipped burgers during college. What tells a man that drug money is better...the bigger the pockets, the better the clothes, the nicer the car, the easier to get the female. This is how we are wired...is it shucking responsibility to ask women to help us out with this scenerio?

"I liked it," Gilliam said of playing gunner on punt team. "It was the first time I did anything like that. It was fun. It felt like, if he wasn't fair catching it, he was disrespecting me, so I was trying to take a head off if I could." Response-ability

That might help but wont do much overall.  As long as money is
to be made people will sell drugs.

They might sell still it...you're right. What i'm getting at
is why. How was it that Biggie could say with confidence that
he was "black and ugly as ever" and yet still
"getting all the honies"?

You know, I was watching a documentary on his life in which he
said that his mother not getting him a certain pair of
sneakers helped to lead him to selling drugs. He wasn't
hungry. His mom made enough money. He was even going to
private school at the time so he was wearing an uniform. Why
did he want the sneakers so bad? So he could be one of the
cool kids. Why? Cause they got the girls. He said this and his
mother backed him up "i wished he didn't do that but he
was always trying to impress his little girlfriends."
(this was on vh1 some time ago).

My point is what if education was sexy instead of sneakers?

>what if education was sexy instead of sneakers?

There would be alotta bare foot people walkin around!!!HAHAHA!

On a more serious note, I see what your sayin, but i dont
think people buy sneakers(or anything) just to impress the
ladies, people do it to impress EVERYONE.  The same goes for
gettin lots of cars and a big ol' house and lots of money, i
dont think most people are doin it for JUST the ladies, some
are, but not most.  People want to have power, and to be
respected and noticed and envyed by EVERYONE.  People equate
money with those things, and drugs is easy money.  Plus theirs
people who just dont want a job, people who cant get a job,
people who want to feed their family, people who dont think
theirs any other way, who are also sellin drugs.  I think what
your sayin is true to some degree and it would help(maybe in a
big way???) but I still think their would be lots drugs bein
sold.  Your plan couldnt hurt anything though could it??? So
might as well try makin it happen.

lol

let's move it pass sneakers...remember Charlie Murphy saying
on the Dave Chappelle skit about meeting Prince that wearing
the jerri curl in his hair worked for getting the women
because it seemed like that was what they were into at the
time "the more you looked like a b, the more bees you
pulled"? This is what I'm talking about. Women influence
culture, especially our culture. On a practical level, I'm
saying that supposed women said "the statistics say we
outnumber our men and addition to that, the drug trade is
killing them off or putting them in jail. We can't do anything
about more boy births but...this drug trade thing. What if we
subtly flipped the script on them and stopped dealing with the
dealers? Period."

Not every man got a jerri curl but a lot of us started playing
with our hair...:)

Women not dating d-boys would not make a difference. People
don't push work just for girls, they normally do it bc their
poor, and it's accepted and justified within the Black
community. Women are only purks for d-boys. People will hustle
for cars, cash, clothes, etc., b4 they will do it for girls bc
a regular girl can't change their predictament. The moral to
the story is: if you seriously movin' work, you can still be a
baller, old lady or not. The only what the dope game will stop
is of the gov. will clean up the mess they started, and even
then, it will take forever to die out.





I could give a fuck about what brand you are/
I'm concerned what type of man you are/
What your principles and standards are/
You understand me y'all/ - Mos Def

How did poor people hustle before the drug trade? They did
other things to survive. Some of those might have been
illegal. But not like the drug trade...the drug trade is about
much more than surviving. It's about big commerce, turf, fear
and intimidation, power and death. Back in the day, people
without money still had pride, still cleaned up their
neighborhoods, still took care of their families...certain
things never came home...if you were selling weed, you did it
somewhere else. You respected the home. I'm speaking on
average as a community (there are always exceptions). That's
not the case now...and people will shoot up your home with
your family in it (or fire bomb it as with the Dawson family
here in B-more) if you confront drug dealers or sell drugs on
their turf, etc.

Yet, as with the Dawson family, a woman stood up and said no
more and now there is no more dealing in that neighborhood.
(Perhaps it's too early to claim a victory and her death was a
very high price to pay.)


 

Niggas out there serving to get paid. They can buy bitches.
What one woman won't do another one will.

What one woman won't do, another will...you're right. But what
if a huge chunk of them, the ones tired of losing sons,
brothers, fathers and lovers to the drug trade and the jails
decided to come together and say no more...we don't want any
parts of that. You can hustle that way but you'll do it alone,
I bet you men will get the message and an evolution will take
place unlike anything we have seen before.

After all the money is made and the power gained, what is it
worth if you can't share it with someone? No one likes to be
lonely...also, there are some things money can't buy.

******************************
http://myspace.com/jahi
******************************
"me as a black man will not
 stand here and allow you to
 talk dumb shit about white
 women that simply is not true"
SouthPhillyMan

I think you're absolutely right. Unfortunately. It's just how it is. I've lived from East Lanvale Street, to Irvington, to Edmondson Village. It's the same thing. Niggas, drugs, girls. But it's all relative. It's just the bad boy image that attracts them. It doesn't neccasarily have to do with drug trade. It could be anything. If eating cupcakes was against the law, and there was a pastry shortage in the hood, niggas would be jackin Tastykake trucks. And the girls would love it. Why? It's the element of danger, taking a risk. From what I can gather from what women tell me, they want to feel like a man will be able to take care of them. And if he doing something illegal for profit, it translates into this dude is 'bout his money. Period. So in the end, it's more about money than anything. In whatever you do. Money sweet talks some women better than any man could I guess.

I guess, as a community, we are saying that we are willing to pay the cost of the drug trade. That we are willing to subsidize it with the blood and bodies of our men as will as with fractures of our families. We love the drug trade so much, we will prostitute ourselves for it...cause ain't nothing like it....education, a job, owning real estate or our own businesses don't even come close to the drug trade...

we got to change the definition of ourselves...

n/m

As a community, we sick of this mess. The actual citizens who go to work everyday can't stand it. They aren't willing to deal with the madness that's going on out here. But there has to be governmental responsibility. They keep droppin the ball. Nobody respects the police, citizen or criminal. Niggas dropped the Stop Snitchin DVD and plastered their faces all over it because they know more than likely, City Hall will do nothing about it. What are citizens supposed to do? People have been talkin until they're blue in the face. And nothing happens. And when Angela Dawson and her family were killed, it just cemented the citywide belief that there's no muscle behind our city government. Yet O'malley is a top 10 Mayor of the country? That's a slap in the face man.

That's why my theory came to mind. Our change has to come from within. And future change within a community is usually dictated by what people feel about themselves individually as well as collectively. The community has been torn down by the drug trade. We can rebuild it by strengthening the relationships between our women and men. I know that there is love there...strong love...just thinking about the way it manifests itself and trying to see if there is a way to inject a subtle change that will have massive ripple effects for our children and generations to come. Great change has been made through the efforts of relationships especially when sex comes into play. I'm saying let's make some strong decisions in this development. Sex, for better or worse is an effective motivator for men. I hope women start to use this motivator to exact a positive change. I've heard about women using sex to trap men or manipulate them...this can be turned on its head to produce a result much more powerful than they ever thought. Imagine the spring of creativity that could come about in the face of a dwindled drug trade...all of those entrepeneurs who were slinging now operating their own businesses, truly supporting families, possibly even adopting a religion to advance their spirituality...perhaps I'm dreaming but for some reason, I think that this could work.

On another note, are you going to Russell Simmons' workshops at Morgan State today?

I wish. Couldn't get off work though. But it's good to see HHSAN include the Baltimore/DC area, and Kevin Liles giving back to where he came from.