>>how did they pay? i would
>>like verses or verse numbers,
>>instead of paraprases, please.
>
>
>but what about abraham,
>>jacob, and esau?
>what happened to them?
>
>Abram (Abraham) - House was in
>turmoil between Sarai (Sarah) and
>Hagar. (Gen.16: 4-6, Gen.21 9-12)

Genesis 16.4
And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived: and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her eyes.
Genesis 16.5
And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the LORD judge between me and thee.
Genesis 16.6
But Abram said unto Sarai, Behold, thy maid in thy hand; do to her as it pleaseth thee. And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, she fled from her face.

and,

Genesis 21.9
And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking.
Genesis 21.10
Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, with Isaac.
Genesis 21.11
And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.
Genesis 21.12
And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.

i dont see any turmoil. maybe marrital relations problems, jealousy or behalf of the barren, but no turmoil.
and even if you say that abraham was "grevious", God told him not to be (gen. 21.12). so what kind of "pay" or punishment is that?
God makes him grevious, then tells him not to be?!?

so where is the real "pay",punishment, grief, etc... for him having two wives?
where was he made to "pay dearly" for his polygamy?




>Esau openly dishonored his father
>and married a canaanite woman
>(Gen 28: 8)

Genesis 28:8
And Esau seeing that the daughters of Canaan pleased not Isaac his father;

he didnt marry from the canaanites. what are you talikng about here? if he did, then why did he "went Esau unto Ishmael, and took unto the wives which he had Mahalath the daughter of Ishmael Abraham's son, the sister of Nebajoth, to be his wife", after seeing that "the daughters of Canaan pleased not Isaac his father"?

or are you saying that ismael's descendants were the canaanites? b/c the preceeding verse says that he took from ismael's offspring.

Genesis 28:9
Then went Esau unto Ishmael, and took unto the wives which he had Mahalath the daughter of Ishmael Abraham's son, the sister of Nebajoth, to be his wife.

if youre not saying that, then he didnt dishonor nor disobey his father.

also his
>other wives were a source
>of grief to his parents
>(Gen:26: 35)

Genesis 26:34
And Esau was forty years old when he took to wife Judith the daughter of Beeri the Hittite, and Bashemath the daughter of Elon the Hittite:
Genesis 26:35
Which were a grief of mind unto Isaac and to Rebekah.

ok. now i get it. but guess what? the other wives he took earlier were not from the canaanites.

alot of ppl dishonor their parents and their wives are sources of grief to their parents. that aint no punishment on them. all of the things you named would be "payment" or punishment to his father and mother (who didnot deserve it), not him. so how did he pay? what happened to him?
where was he made to "pay dearly" for his polygamy?




>Jacob was tricked (Gen. 29: 22-25)
>into his adultery by Leban.

how so?

Genesis 29:22
And Laban gathered together all the men of the place, and made a feast.
Genesis 29:23
And it came to pass in the evening, that he took Leah his daughter, and brought her to him; and he went in unto her.
Genesis 29:24
And Laban gave unto his daughter Leah Zilpah his maid an handmaid.
Genesis 29:25
And it came to pass, that in the morning, behold, it Leah: and he said to Laban, What this thou hast done unto me? did not I serve with thee for Rachel? wherefore then hast thou beguiled me?

he was tricked into MARRYING leah, and yes he married her, as was the reason he worked for those seven years. he wasnt married b4 her, so how could he commit adultery?

>Jacob wanted to marry Rachel
>(Gen 29: 18)Jacob was a
>servant to Leban a extra
>seven years due to it.
>(Gen. 29: 27)

thats right. but instead laban tricked him into MARRYING LEAH, not just sleeping with her.

>Jacob didnt love Leah (29: 30-31)

correct.
>He a turmoil within his
>household (Gen. 30: 1)Rachel
>was jealous of her sister's
>blessing of child birth.

Genesis 30:1
And when Rachel saw that she bare Jacob no children, Rachel envied her sister; and said unto Jacob, Give me children, or else I die.

again, more marrital relations problems and jealousy on behalf of barren women. how is this punishment for him? seems like stress for them, not him.
where was he made to "pay" for his polygamy?

and what about the other two: bilhah and zilpah? i guess everything was cool with them, huh? and dont tell me they were not wives b/c i provided the verse to back up my claim.

so where is the "turmoil" between them?
where was he made to "pay dearly" for his polygamy w/ them?


no where did you tell me how these brothers were made to "pay dearly" for their polygamy. you told me how they had marrital relations problems and how certain wives were jealous of one another b/c they were barren and the other was not. but this is not reflective of a "pay dearly" punishment of behalf of those brothers for their polygamy.

i dont think a wife screaming here and there, a little or a lot of jealousy from a wife here and there, is grounds for saying that this was somekind of punishment on them for being polygamists. this happens everyday to monogamous couples. so is it a punishment on them too, for something that they havent done, i.e.- polygamy?

so, all in all, God allowed it then, just as he does today.

nobody still didnt address this: http://www.aboutislam.com

these christians are saying Allah of the qur'an and God of the bible are one in the same. so what maks them wrong and YOU right?
they are using a bible just like yours to prove that they are the same.

hell, even Bush said yesterday, on the 4th of july, that they were the same, in front of millions (including t.v. viewers)!!!!!
how do you explain that?


who is Prophet Muhammad -salla Allahu 'alaihi wa sallam (peace be upon him)? click here to read his biography:
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/SM_tsn/

Narrated Aisha (Prophet Muhammad's wife):
The Prophet used to offer prayer at night (for such a long time) that his feet used to crack. I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Why do you do it since Allah has forgiven you your faults of the past and those to follow?" He said, "Shouldn't I love to be a thankful slave (of Allah)?' When he became old, he prayed while sitting, but if he wanted to perform a bowing, he wound get up, recite (some other verses) and then perform the bowing.

subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You). ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be worshipped except You). astaghfiruka (I seek Your forgiveness), wa attuubu ilaika (and I turn to You in Repentance).